White Spirit Bonuses

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Trexmaster
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White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Trexmaster » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:49 am

I think being able to go beyond the max rank of a skill with these bonuses is too overbearing, and trying to balance out which skills are 'okay' to be allowed this would be more effort than its worth, in my opinion, so, I think something simpler like perhaps a small stat bonus would be more balanced (albeit less interesting). If we want to keep with the theme of 'SP bonus to classes', well, we could just have them award an extra SP to the class in question rather then a rank to a stat.

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Re: White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Lolzytripd » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:43 am

damage skills don't get anymore scaling by going over, and just a single+1 doesn't throw any skill into the overbearing end.

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Re: White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Kameron8 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:50 am

Lolzytripd wrote:damage skills don't get anymore scaling by going over, and just a single+1 doesn't throw any skill into the overbearing end.
Matador Stance, Reaver Stance, Cobra Stance, Snake Dancer, Know No Pain, Spell Snatch, Overload, Ether Invitation, Fast Offense, One Versus One, Shine Knights, Gust Arrows, One Overcharge.

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Re: White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Lolzytripd » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:42 am

kameron could you explain what it does to those skills each , individually and why its bad

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Re: White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Kameron8 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:08 am

Kameron8 wrote: Matador Stance, Reaver Stance, Cobra Stance, Snake Dancer, Know No Pain, Spell Snatch, Overload, Ether Invitation, Fast Offense, One Versus One, Shine Knights, Gust Arrows, One Overcharge.
Stances: Provide 1m for activating because of Gradient Blur. Demon Hunters get 4m for going through stances. Matdors get 400 rage for Retaliate.

Know No Pain: Increases damage reduction by another flat 4, making them even more immune to bullets. (More rage is generated)

Snake Dancer: 3 dodges per round instead of 2. This needs no explanation.

Spell Snatch: Gives another spell slot for thieves to use.

Overload: Scales even more with bonus stats. If magic didn't suck as a whole at the moment, people already would be getting gibbed by Overload. (Vampires do by default)

Ether Invitation
: Ups the damage cap to 300, increasing damage by 20%.

Fast Offense: Youkai get 9 momentum instead of 8, enabling a third action.

One versus One: Doubles in effectiveness, if it scales with rank. 20% DR/Damage.

Shine Knights: Become level 70.

Gust Arrows: An additional 1 range. If you've fought against longdraw gust arrows before, you know why nobody wants this.

One Overcharge: Extra 20% bonus to the skill that impacts every single shell you have. Rank 54 Hesitation, 13 tile reduction Celsius, 26 reduction to Cel and Ski.

Not to mention every single class that gets added into the game from this point forward would need to take rank x+1/x into account for every single skill. Getting the equivalent of free SP is good enough, breaking skill caps like GMs will cause an enormous balance headache for Dev both immediately and in the future forever.

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Re: White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Snake » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:04 pm

That could exist imo, if 1- they were granted by Black Spirits 2- the drawbacks included -25% HP/FP or gibbing the damage by 75%.
But for now eh...
(+1) to Kam and Trex, too much for something with no drawbacks but Exorcist enchant.
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Re: White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Chaos » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:14 pm

-Loss of spirit on relog is likely to counteract Spell Snatch's boost, especially in the middle of a scene (No, I would not let people suddenly go OOC just so they can regain a spirit like that)
-Overload's damage-per-stat scaling is not that linear, and should not provide a higher bonus at rank 6
-Fast Offense would only be able to move -> attack -> skill, assuming the first offensive action does not hit a Resist
-One versus One does not work that way
-Shine Knights still have to deal with the reduced scaling on stats past softcap

Let's not forget that alongside Spirits going away on relog, having any single spirit will enable both Antithesis and Holy to work against the user, and the latter gets a substantial bonus from Devotion's 'Divine Sign'. From all my time tinkering with skills past the rank caps, I can tell you that beyond the potential for gaining momentum, not one of these boosts alone is worth the substantial damage boost you're providing to your enemies, especially when Holy's going to be seeing a lot more use if spirits become popular.

That being said, I would adjust Gradient Blur to where it only sets Stance costs to 0m, assuming that Gradient Blur currently just subtracts from the momentum cost. Beyond that, however, I see no immediate reason to stomp these out before they get out of the Beta server.


P.S. "Provide an extra SP" will likely create a bigger headache for Dev, since again, these spirits go away when you log off.
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Re: White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Shujin » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:38 pm

P.S. "Provide an extra SP" will likely create a bigger headache for Dev, since again, these spirits go away when you log off.
Uh, in the current version they do not go away upon log out, so you actually keep them.

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Re: White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Chaos » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:26 pm

Shujin wrote:Uh, in the current version they do not go away upon log out, so you actually keep them.
Alright, ignore all I've mentioned towards that end. But I will continue to maintain my stance that the rank boosts are not that overwhelming, all things considered.
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye

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Re: White Spirit Bonuses

Post by Joseph Jostar » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:34 pm

Chaos wrote:-Loss of spirit on relog is likely to counteract Spell Snatch's boost, especially in the middle of a scene (No, I would not let people suddenly go OOC just so they can regain a spirit like that)
-Overload's damage-per-stat scaling is not that linear, and should not provide a higher bonus at rank 6
-Fast Offense would only be able to move -> attack -> skill, assuming the first offensive action does not hit a Resist
-One versus One does not work that way
-Shine Knights still have to deal with the reduced scaling on stats past softcap

Let's not forget that alongside Spirits going away on relog, having any single spirit will enable both Antithesis and Holy to work against the user, and the latter gets a substantial bonus from Devotion's 'Divine Sign'. From all my time tinkering with skills past the rank caps, I can tell you that beyond the potential for gaining momentum, not one of these boosts alone is worth the substantial damage boost you're providing to your enemies, especially when Holy's going to be seeing a lot more use if spirits become popular.

That being said, I would adjust Gradient Blur to where it only sets Stance costs to 0m, assuming that Gradient Blur currently just subtracts from the momentum cost. Beyond that, however, I see no immediate reason to stomp these out before they get out of the Beta server.


P.S. "Provide an extra SP" will likely create a bigger headache for Dev, since again, these spirits go away when you log off.
i thought status effects were being changed to last across relogs in certain situations like that? that being said, gradient blur doesn't subtract from the cost as far as i'm aware. it just takes however much M the stance change would normally use, then gives you 1 back (effectively making it 0 the first use, but not quite) so i'm assuming the M cost just changes to 0 as per ranking increase, then you still get 1 back for using it

i can't talk much on a lot of those skills but tbh one overcharge is pretty overbearing in general, i don't think one point will make it too much worse than it already is, though i definitely agree that 3 cobra dodges a round sounds like a bit overkill. DH stances giving M back may or may not be an oversight like the fiasco with stylish dungeons (who can tell with Dev though)

overall i'm with the idea that the power increase to holy weapons and antithesis you suffer from it will probably be sufficient balance in most cases, but i am worried about a handful of edge cases being a problem. that can probably be adjusted though if it comes to it

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