This is not a salt thread, or an jab at dev saying that Sigrogana Legend is bad in itself. Heck no, like most of us who are still around we enjoy the game very much and overall I think Dev is doing good work. He is just a bit to absent in the actual core of the game that keeps it alive. The RPG between the players. So I actually want a serious discussion and see how the community as a whole see the thing and if this is one day going to be a game that actually keeps those players I personally enjoyed RPing with like Cat, Esther, Leah, Kam and so on while making people like me, Saw and a bunch of others not "Zombie" around pretty much only out of Nostagalia and cause we have some friends we like. In short, make it more enjoyable experince overall.
This thread is basically a collection of things I have thought about that bother me, things people that have quit said to me and their reasoning, and what people like me who actually like the game but rant about a few key features this game is currently missing to make it more appealing as an RPG overall.
So everyone is also invited to bring up their own thoughts of what bothers them, is free to agree and disagree to whatever I have to say but most importantly. Voice what changes you feel would make the experince much better for you. To adress the things we REALLY need changed instead of adding more fluff here and there to let us forget about the main issues for a week or two (looking at you, beautiful Alstalsia!).
Of course everyone has their own ideas of how the game should look like, and which direction it should take, so here are mine!
When I talk with Ex-players, one of the main things I hear is that they quit because they felt the RP is going nowhere. Not only the RP but the progression of their own character is basically just this: Grind to 60 as fast a possible, get items, done. Forever. Currently this is so much of an issue that someone who actually tries can easily get 3 Characters in one day up to the absolute Maximum without an issue if being grinded...But even reaching 60 in one day with just running around and doing Dungeons/Black Beasts/Scar repair is quite possible.
This encourages people to get many different characters, mass produce powerhouses that have litterally no story with the people (Unless it's a group of people with their friends, but that doesn't really count), And makes people abondon the Characters cause of a current "Meh" feeling, because they want to switch things up instead of working on that one character to intervine them more with maybe other people.
The current system supports this, making it hard to bond with characters that you aren't actively following for OOC reasons cause once they get a tiny bit bored of the character they get replaced by a new one cause how easy it is to have one character fully grown in not even a day. Instead of trying to overcome and grow with that one character, giving us a bunch of...Well, unintetionally half assed and partly repurposed Characters that have little meaning to even the player behind them. (I mean, you certainly are more careful with your character, when you have spend months and monthy RPing with them, over someone who has been around and didn't root with the others much yet.)
Damm I remember how HARD it was back then to reach level 60. Back then when the EXP curve was much higher, we had no Training day, no full clear bonuses, no black beasts and no real map nuke attacks like Wretched Oil (we have isendo though. Was okay though most of the time cause Goblins are a bitch, and you were worrying about your growth rates anyway.), which came much later. But at the end? It felt so DAMM good. It was really rewarding and making you feel good about yourself, it took certainly longer and was a chore that people certainly don't really like remembering. But it didn't devalue what it meant to be at Level 60 the so called "Elite".
RP Enviorment: Who is my character and whats his Value in the world?
I know it was said once, that players are basically "Main Characters" or atleast the absolute elite in the world with a lot of potential. Like a Level 60 Battle Character basically being a one man army, compared to the normal NPCs in the world. Top Tier, something that I personally think should be the case. (Though reaching this state shouldn't be as easy as it is at the moment, more about that later.) Players should be something that stands out from the crowd atleast a little, unless they choose otherwise of course.
But as it stands right now? I don't feel it, and many seem to feel that aswell, while argueably thats simply because they forget just how many NPCs are around them, cause of them being invisible there is also the fact that we are sourrounded by absolute beasts. God Tier Emporer, Super Insane Mud breeder with apparntly endless power, Chaos Events, Kinu/Ashe godly powers and so on. Even if you read the many different lore bits and stuff...Everyone who sligthly mattered was litterally near god tier, like the former Tennou, Ryart or whoever really. This isn't bad! It shows that there is still an instance above them thats not easily reached and only a few selected ones can acheive under specific conditions...What I think is bad however is, that there are no other ways really that allow us to stand out in the RP much, the honestly biggest position that was given out and was still kinda small was probably Mayor of Voilegard.
Another HUGE part of what could make people stand out, outside of combat is Crafting and Jobs. The Crafting system as it stands is REALLY lackluster, unimmersive and absolutely meaningless. A level 6 Master Blacksmith? badjoke, they barely even RP as such and just have is by the by. This I blame on the Leveling system of crafts (Crafting 1000 longswords is certainly not going to make you suddenly the best Smith in the world.) and what you can actually do once you are full Leveld in the craft. And Metal smithing is even one of the better crafts currently and still is...Underwhelming. Don't get me started on Tailoring and such.
What I am trying to say here, not even a Master Blacksmith can make himself a name here, it's just a rather boring OOC number you use that matters little if you RP a Master Blacksmith or a Masterswordman, they are probably even at smithing in the end. And for ME thats an major Issue. A Master Blacksmith deserving of the title should outshine a hobby smith who just knows basic maintenance actually. But at the same time I do not think a Master Blacksmith, spending most of his time should be by default on equal footing than the Master swordman who practices the usage of the sword.
And yes it is possible to acheive this, with the right system behind it.
Alternatives to being a Arena Combatant who oh so happens to be dragged into Events, randomly.
Actually similiar to above, we are lacking Jobs and stuff to do outside of PvPing. PvPing is currently only the Focus of most people cause there is nothing else to put your focus on. People play the game for a bit of slice of life RP in a fantasy setting, mostly. Sometimes they want to progress though and follow some personal driving points and this currently met with basically... Have a house and do a business that is atleast giving the illusion of something happening (which is okay, can be actually fun too.) Or well...PvP and be known as such. This goes hand in hand with the issue of Progression though cause even here you have a hardcap, thats equal to those "one day flies". And they can depending on the build just because they choose to be unfair, easily roflstomp that person that has been invovled with the RP since beginning of SL2. I do not think thats "Fair" at all, even though by the definition of the word it probably is. But I am getting distracted, Reacurring jobs could be implented to help people do things and break out of the stallness of the Square sitting, making people go out and explore and most importantly REWARD you for doing such. Jobs that go hand in hand with other players, making them work together much more in their different crafts and well...Stop handholding them and cut every form of progress down for convieniance. I think in a long term RPG such as Sigrogana, if you want something you should work hard for it. You don't need instant progression. It feels much better after a month to have finally caught up to your rival, or having worked hard on your crafts that you can do stuff thats much more amazing what people can currently do.
-Character progression is hard locked on the current level 60, and reached WAY to easily.
-Mechanics that could be used for RP are cut down for convenience sake.
-The lack of meaningful positions in RP
-The Crafting system as a whole is deserving a overhaul, So it can be actually meaningful jobs that hols value in the players eyes and encourages interaction between always more than just one player.
-Lack of long term Motivation, for both RP and sticking to a Character, resulting in many people to either abondon the character or even quit the game.
-Characters aren't really part of the world. We have "Story mode" which is cool, also helps to get ideas how the world works and stuff. But the players have very little hands in any of the happenings and world building. Or at the very leasts thats how it feels because of the distance to our beloved Dev, who sorta reminds me of my Dad. Never at home, always working and bringing the moonies home, so that I actually do not know him.
IDEAS TO FIGHT THE ISSUES
Progression of the Character:
I think it's time to change how the leveling system in general works. Though instead of really cutting away from something, I rather actually add a few tiny bits to it. Ideally I would say Cut "Max" level down to 50, but add a system that REAAAALLY slowly together with RP Exp only grows and I don't know...Has a cap of level 20? Resulting in a max level of 70.It also works with not touching the current max level at all I guess. Though when I say really slowly, I mean it. It shouldn't be possible to rush it at all, and people also shouldn't feel the need that they miss out on anything just cause they can't play for a week and being suddenly totally overhelmed by someone who is on equal footing as them ICly.
I think this is very much possible, we have a timer for when we can gain RP exp, so it's limited on how much you can proc this in a day. I don't know if anyone of you ever tried, but I did. Leveling a character from 1 to 60 completly just with RP exp. It took me roughly 3 months till I was bored afterall and was at like 52? I must say I wasn't really active with that char though either, so I could have reached it much faster aswell. Thing is, I am talking about this sort of speed, mostly because this prevents the "one day flies" that I really learned to hate and promotes sticking to your char in a fully unbiased system, that allows them to shine a bit more over the "new" ones. Also makes you wanna RP with them a bit more cause it feels even more Rewarding! Roleplay is fun!
How exactly the speed of this progression is, is up to Dev I guess. but honestly, the slower the better in my opinion. Though of course still noticeable.
Idea B.)Rewarding Story milestones.
I think this can work together with A.) but I do not really like this one to be honest. Simply cause it still boils down to "I need to rush the story real quick to get some more benefits". But I guess it can work, if you put a bit thought into it or let it be very specific raid bosses only or laplace requests that give you special quests once after reachign specific conditions. (those quests also being a bit harder than the Kill 100 XY quests...Or well, more time consuming atleast.)
Each time you reach such a milestone, you get another small but noticeable boost. Like maybe +1 max level cap, or +1 max class level, etc. Which each on their own would not be that strong but once you got them all? Thats probably going to weight in a good deal, rewarding you for spending all the time that can't just be rushed with the help of a grinder easily.
Idea C.) RP milestones.
Call me crazy, but similiar to B, this could simply be much like the current medal system. You could get a "medal" for being online on that char for like 50 hours (I kinda dislike this cause you can just go AFK online, though it could not count "idle" time), or having reached RP Exp 100 times.
Similiar concept as above, giving players more tiny boosts with stuff that does not really demand much more than being active on the character.
I am mostly for A and B together, though you need to be careful to not make B to impactful and make it something thats not just boils down to "I pick up this friend and he drags me through all this shit!". Though honestly...Prolonging the process of reaching a fully maxed character alone, will make people consider it a tiny bit more before they mass produce characters. So whatever.
The main idea here is, to not let grinding alone determine the full strength of a character, but give them something that takes really long time to acheive and more or less passively comes while simply sticking to your guns and not let boredom and convenience determine the amount of effort you put into a character. There are certainly other ways to acheive this aswell, but I think this is one of the easiest that con potentionally also bring some new fun mechanics and raid bosses into the game.
Crafting and Jobs being more immersive and meaningful
Get a cheap item that you can mass produce into the cheapest craft in your tree and max it out. Once in a while do something with it, but actually just watch people find better stuff that you can ever hope to produce from Chests, or just masterwork them up with some Greens easily. Or material kits of course.
This is kinda boring? Also kinda feels not special at all, for your character to have been practicing something their life time (Like a lich having studies magic for ancient times, but kinda still enchanting like a bitch.)
So first few important changes that HAVE to be made:
-Not allow to gain crafting exp for something that is like 3 levels under your current skill level. Actually change it so that you gain more exp the more the craft exceeds your current skill and less for the easier it is for you, to give actual feel of gaining experince.
-Increase the level cap of all crafts. Still allow to only gain a specific number of crafts however overall (I mean in different crafts at once, to clarify, like it is currently). You should be able to gain 10, if not 20 in a craft (See spendable point system for crafts below) since blacksmithing at the very least has already stuff that can be difficulty 14 if you use a certain material. A masterblacksmith should be able to handle that, without the use of alchemy.
-Obviously expand on what you can do with the crafts, and at the very least let them craft everything thats in the game. I was considering that 10* may be exceptions, but honestly? There should maybe be a system that still alows them to do even that. Maybe add some search of research system that people with a certain level in a craft can attempt to make blueprints of the thing they wanna craft, which has a chance to fail and actually break the item. So for 10* you actually have to be fucking good already just to attempt it.
-Maybe add other benefits to what you can do with a Crafting job, aside the obvious crafting. As example, Enchanting could be the general art of magic, giving you the abbility to create wards, temporaily buff someone with something minior (I imangine a priest being able to give someone a protection charme against undead). Also those things would comsume specific items, which are however easy to get if you put a little effort into it, again more to this later in the Job section. Smiths could also get stuff like the current maintenance talent tree does and improve on that or even give some sword of weapon sharpening buff for some time. Honestly I am a bit low on ideas here, but I am sure people could come up with stuff here! Woodworkers could probably be also carpenters, that can make special decorations out of wood that they can either sell or use for houses. Stuff like that.
And well the biggest change, which I think is nessecary however and kinda goes hand in hand with all mentioned above. Either adjusting the trait and talent system to also grant benefits to crafts, giving your character small disadvantages in other areas while they perfect this one. And/Or what I personally prefer, a whole new pointspending system that can give you various boni for crafting and maybe even item gathering and so on. Maybe even get new "Destiny crafters" that have like -10 max level (the level that you can gain through grinding only, so if they stick around long enough they are probably still better than one day flies in every way almost) but get more points to spend in that specific craft and other boni. To work this out shouldn't be all that hard.
I think that people who dedicate themself to something and want to go all the way with it, should excell in this, making the market flourish between players aswell.
They have tree focusing on increasing the drop rate at the end of battle for material parts, that are depending on the Monster they hunt of course.
They get boosts of using the bonesaw and the amount of resources they can get from corpses. I am not talking about remains only, stuff like Beast fangs, teeth, hide/fur and what not could all be things the collect. Heck maybe add special Job weapons that help with this aswell.
Actually an Idea I originally had for Hyoya since they hunt alot and extent the game with some more huntable Animals and Monsters that aren't just from BDPs. Could be also connected to hunter quests, that give you reputation for a town etc. etc. There is alot that could be done to make this interesting and part of your characters life that fullfills a purpose.
I guess those are a little more boring the way I think about them, but some probably have ideas to make it better? Basically what they get it better pickaxe skills, higher chance to drop special materials while mining, maybe even gold sometimes or other valuables to sell, and less stamina drain, less injury chance and bla. The higher your mining skill the more you get out from mining and the more high tier stuff. Dungeons pretty much are already "Elemental" themed, so yeah...But the elemental metals kinda need to be reviewd anyway, they sorta lost their appeal over remains. While they do not need to be better, fullfilling their elemental niche, should be looked at. But thats for another topic.
pretty much like Miners, but I think it would become worthwhile if you add some very rare plants, that a alchemist can work into really special stuff. Not like gathering herbs is bad. But yeah you get the gist.
Mostly because why not. They could get special stuff like increasing the amount of items they add to the count per watering, maybe even decrease farming time cause "Love for plants helps them grow!" or something like that. Honestly I would enjoy this. Maybe even special farming skills ala harvest moon! Like watering the plants left and right of you at the same time aswell!... I am not even kidding.
I think those changes alone (well I say alone, but thats actually lots of work, but I think nessecary.) would help us to get a bit away from the PvP being the only thing you kinda do in end game. In all the things I mentioned I want you all to keep in mind, that all of this should be things you work really hard for and is going to be time consuming, because I believe thats the only real way to go about this to feel that what you do is really meaningful and you don't feel like you can be replaced by litterally everyone else. I know looking at the way will make you think "Who in their right mind wants to go through that shit? It's annoying and hard, I wanna my instant power so I can run my ideas through as fast as possible". But I seriously believe that good RP is based on hard work and high reward aswell. So I would really love the system change to something that gives you this feeling back, like the past "Wow, I am level 60! I DID IT!" over the "Fuck, come on get me to 60 real quick, it's annoying."
I know that I am probably not in the majority with this opinion, but I always felt that Dev wanted to Reward people who put effort into the game, but that goal kinda was lost in the convenience store while he simply began to Focus on other stuff.
Now that Alstalsia is done though, and the traitsystem rework was on the list anyway, I think it's a good time to start the second part of the GR which does not only focus on Combat mechanics but the overall life in Sigrogana.
I know long text, feel free to ignore, but I wanted to point it out since I would like it when some of the old players return and I think thats atleast a step in the right direction! Feel free to comment or add your own Issues here, something that you think would better our overall experince as a community and wahtever you think fits here. Do not mention to much stuff thats about PvE monster or general PvP mechanics though, cause this is really not about that, here.