The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

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Yark
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The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by Yark » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:47 am

Yesterday evening, while role-playing a recruitment event inside our guild house, Ephemeral was forced (by pressure of a game moderator) to allow entry to a group of regular players who were mechanically locked outside. Furthermore, once these players were inside the guild house, we were told that we were not allowed to use locked doors to deny them access to any area of the guild house.

Effectively, this means that as long as the owner of a guild house is online an attentive, one is not permitted to deny the entry of others into his or her home, nor into sections of that home which are partitioned off by locked doors. Consider the implications of this decision. It means that any group of players, at any time, could role-play their way into your mechanically locked property for any reason. If you are role-playing a private initiation ceremony inside your home, then prepare to be invaded whether or not you choose to secure the area. If you use communal item storage crates for your friends or guild mates, then kiss your treasure goodbye. Or presumably, since one is evidently forced to unlock doors, one would also be forced to set all storage crates to public anyway.

Regardless of your personal opinions on yesterday's events in particular, is this really the sort of environment in which we want to play?

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Lolzytripd
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Re: The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by Lolzytripd » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:00 am

Look you're leaving a lot of facts out for those interested in what would happen and could possibly side with or against you.

If it was guards, this is nothing new as any house in a town the guards have jurisdiction (cells, dorm,tannis, volen, ect) they can immediately raid.

There isn't really a precedent for the guards in other countries but I'm sure there could be an agree upon procedure (example: Kysei raid/extradition requests take 1d20 days before the government caves and allows sigrogana guards in to take you by force to face your crimes, but the kysei goverment is impartial and warns you giving you time to leave, but you don't know how much time that is exactly)

If this wasn't guards it should be talked about.

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Re: The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by Yark » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:31 am

Lolzytripd wrote:If this wasn't guards it should be talked about.
It wasn't, which is why I'm bringing it up. Nothing we were told indicates that normal players are not able to RP breaking down doors.

As an aside, I'd say the reverse ought to be true, as guards are markedly weaker than many normal players. But that's a whole other can of worms.

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Noxid
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Re: The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by Noxid » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:01 am

Players should be able to rp breaking into doors in my opinion although how this can resolved fairly is going to be difficult. In an ideal world people would come to some kind of agreement but in situations like these it is unlikely the people involved will be having amicable relations. The creative freedom allowed with houses poses issues too. For one persons house that might be just a simple door. For someone else's? It could be a 20 foot gatehouse so having someone just roll a d20 system is going to feel really immersion breaking if just anyone can bash through a gatehouse as easily as a wooden door. Of course the problem is building a gatehouse ic takes nothing more than to say its there either so why wouldn't you just have a few in your house built with throw away rp.

Thinking about it the powers afforded to people in their housing is something that has gone long undiscussed. I think this is gonna be quite the can of worms we open here but it needs to be done I suppose.

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Re: The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by WaifuApple » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:09 am

The dangerous precedent that COULD have been set in Dormeho is that wanted criminals are allowed to openly post recruitment posters across the empire, giving EVERYONE a date and a time with which to come find them, if they wanted to arrest them, and then completely shrugging off the very large possibility of people coming after you because of OOC mechanics that make you completely free of consequence. Guards are normal players too, so of course they're going to vary in builds. No need to continuously bring up the topic of "Guards are bad at PvP". You made a stupid mistake, in choosing to OPENLY advertise recruitment process for a group branded as terrorists. This is what happens.

If you're going to play a villain, you're going to have to think smarter than that. And I mean a lot smarter. Take this as a lesson to you and the rest of your group. Just being meta won't help if the IC choices surrounding your group weigh down on you. Accept that you messed up, and move along, or you're probably not going to be any luckier in your next venture, either. Having a fortress protecting you completely from your mistakes and consequences won't really help with that.

I think this was a good precedent set.
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Yark
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Re: The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by Yark » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:25 am

WaifuApple wrote:snip
Except it wasn't OOC. Terrorists bombed our house several days ago and we were told that we had to RP repairs. So we captured a Naga slave and had her complete repairs, add fortifications for a siege, and lay traps inside just in case.

Of course we were told that we weren't allowed to have fortifications and that traps were an "asspull," which is completely ridiculous.

In any case, this precedent means, in theory, that we could breach any house in the game and have GMs force players to unlock all inside doors. The only thing that could stop us is... Well, nothing really. Aside from the owner being offline.

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WaifuApple
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Re: The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by WaifuApple » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:47 am

Guards could stop people if they're a criminal of course, but you had this coming, and should have expected it. You attack random people, they attack back. The problem is that you just didn't put any real effort into your criminal group, and expected too much to go in your favour. What a GM says goes, too, so there's that. If you don't like it, the only person who can do anything about it is Dev, and they probably won't take your side.

also, nice quote there
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Yark
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Re: The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by Yark » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:51 am

WaifuApple wrote:Guards could stop people
Actually, guards are unable to stop us. It's the vigilantes who give us a run for our money and sometimes defeat us.

You're still letting your personal salt cloud your objectivity, so I don't think I'll continue to entertain you on this topic.

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WaifuApple
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Re: The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by WaifuApple » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:58 am

I'm not salty, I lost nothing from this honestly. I got a laugh out of watching you guys keep slipping up tbh.
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Akame
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Re: The dangerous precedent set in Dormeho.

Post by Akame » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:53 pm

Mmm... I'm in agreement with WaifuApple. You publicly put up posters in the place where you're wanted, giving away the time and place for your tryouts, then tried to say "You can't enter the house because of OOC mechanics". That's not okay - you must find better ways to recruit people in the community where you can't attract backlash ICly, and should not, and cannot, depend on OOC mechanics to fallback on to shield yourself.

Sorry. It seems like fair play here! :(
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