[Discussion] Limited Skipping

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Snake
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[Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby Snake » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:47 pm

What would happen if Skip could only be used if you had 4 or less Momentum?
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Nanovelich
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Re: [Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby Nanovelich » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:08 pm

PvE becomes a pain for most classes.

Aside from that, it's an interesting thought for PvP.
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Re: [Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby Raigen.Convict » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:39 am

I'm the only person that has never played a character who abused skip probably, i'm not sure how it'd affect much, but I HAVE been victim to skip aboose, which is not okay when used properly, but still an easy counter if you take skip too.
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Re: [Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby Nanovelich » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:06 am

I thought about this a bit more, so I'll elaborate my earlier points, as well as restate my opinion on part of it.


Frankly, in my opinion, Skip is pretty much mandatory to have as a Trait for the following reasons.

PvE: In the case of battles that are not back attacks, being able to skip and allow the monsters to close the distance for you rather than losing a round to doing so yourself is a great time saver in the long run, if you're someone who actually has high CEL that is. One fight sounds simple, but if you don't have extremely high Move, the time saved per fight adds up over a dungeon.

PvP: Counter-skipping. The only real reason, unless you're abusing Tactician or you have a riposte skill apparently (critical for a momentum boost and the turn shifts back to you.)


Aside from its use in PvE (which I abuse very, very often and am sure most people do as well,) I find Skip's existence to be... aggravating in most cases. I don't think there's ever been an instance in PvP where I would not counter-skip aside from possibly being able to knockdown and drain my opponent's momentum while they hadn't considered the possibility.

In my experience, it's always the same story no matter which side of the Skip field you're on in a PvP fight: First person skips, second person skips, the round continues like it would have anyway.

The only time skipping in PvP is at all valid, aside from aggravating reasons such as baiting your opponent (to which they most likely won't take it and just have to push Skip themselves as well) or abusing something to take advantage of having skipped later, is in team fights, where it can be both very useful and highly advantageous even if your opponents counter-skip, since it can allow team members to follow up each other's actions in a more effective manner.




So, in short:

1.) I would not be in favor of nerfing Skip in a way that would ruin its PvE-usage for those who aren't master grind mages or Speed McQueens in the grinding game yet. (Think early day scrubs who only have the basic 'two action' setup going on and nothing to really compensate for the ridiculous placement distance.)

2.) I would be very uneasy affecting Skip in a PvP-targeted manner either. Unfortunately, while I could very easily say, "Well, it would be great if in one-on-one's, you couldn't do this with Skip," there's nothing that stops a one-on-one, where having Skip shut down is actually arguable, from becoming not a one-on-one, where Skip actually has some tactical utility and should indeed be available.


Or in other words: Fuckin' sucks, but I think we're stuck playing hot potato with Skip.

I would just very much like Skip to no longer be something you have to invest a Trait point into, because like I said, it's absolutely mandatory unless you're just really begging for a rough time.
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Neus
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Re: [Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby Neus » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:24 am

I've been thinking about the PvE experience lately and I am thinking about ways to improve it. I agree that the spawn distances are a little wild and inconsistent without much reason behind it. I'm not sure if people actually like getting dropped into random spots on different halves of the map, but it could be normalized to a number of pre-determined locations that are closer together.

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Re: [Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby Rendar » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:28 am

Honestly just having combat take a sort of Final Fantasy Tactics ( or Fire Emblem ) role for when a battle starts that allows for parties to plan where they spawn next to eachother (with a "QUICK START" option for the party leader that just says "RANDOM!" for quick pve).

This would alleviate PVP where everyone on your team starts on 1 side of the map. Except that ONE member on your team, who started ridiculously close to the enemy for 0 reason and almost instantly gets 4v1'd before the party can react.
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Neus
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Re: [Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby Neus » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:27 am

I think having to select a start position would get in the way of my goal which is to try and make PvE and dungeoning feel smoother and faster, even if it had a 'quick' option.

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Re: [Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby MegaBlues » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:46 pm

Make the selection a preference, then. Have the option to turn off placement completely, then have an option in placement to auto-position.

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Re: [Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby Ranylyn » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:13 pm

Also, for the love of heck, make allies start closer together, so AoE buffs aren't COMPLETELY USELESS, due to it being better to just attack once the enemies are in range.
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Re: [Discussion] Limited Skipping

Postby Snake » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:49 am

Allies spawning together would suck in PvP, but I don't think this is what it is about.

Even though the topic is to talk about 'what if Skip could only be used at 4M or less' instead of party spawning positions.
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