Invigoring STR (again)

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Flamesword1
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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Flamesword1 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:08 am

My only complaint is that by switching the crit chance from SKI to Str or removing it completely and reducing Luck's crit chance, would make the archer classes, worry about having another stat to invest in. With the new talent only affecting melee weapons, bow, and guns users have to worry about regaining that lost crit back along with hitting their targets and staying alive long enough to matter.

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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Chaos » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:51 am

Flamesword1 wrote:My only complaint is that by switching the crit chance from SKI to Str or removing it completely and reducing Luck's crit chance, would make the archer classes, worry about having another stat to invest in. With the new talent only affecting melee weapons, bow, and guns users have to worry about regaining that lost crit back along with hitting their targets and staying alive long enough to matter.

That's an alternative suggestion, not the main one.

Besides, that's exactly the point of transferring that crit over; you're not supposed to be able to dump any stat without consequence. STR fails to have any meaningful consequence when the weapon used requires little to no STR, and as we've seen so far, slapping STR everywhere just homogenizes the weapons, forcing STR in as a 'aw do i have to' instead of giving benefit to not ignoring the stat.
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Fern
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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Fern » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:32 pm

STR giving 0.5 Critical Damage is still my favorite. But my concern with that is axe builds becoming a lot more bonkers. "Get Critical Evade" isn't a valid response to that, since they can break over 216% Critical Rate with a Berserker Shell and Kensei.
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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Shujin » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:58 pm

I also am in favour for either critical damage increase (Melee, maybe bows, but not guns).
Or simply giving a 0.5 damage to basic attack damage. (again, not guns)

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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Grandpa » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:49 pm

Personally, I like the idea someone (I can't recall who now. Spoops, maybe?) had that was something along the lines of essentially "doubling" the power of weapons by making each point of strength apply to power- like, 22 strength on a 24 power weapon would increase the power up to a max of 22 (Making the total 46).

In the end though, most weapons don't get that high of power and your strength is boosted up a fair bit by the aptitude tax. So I don't think this would fix much at all, actually. Maybe if the cap on it was something like weapon power x2 or x1.5. So 24 power could be increased by a maximum of 48 or 36 strength respectively, which would total to 72/60. This would make pretty much everything just do a lot more damage, but maybe that isn't such a bad thing anymore.

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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Inconspicuous Kitty » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:48 pm

What if a percentage of your strength was added to your SWA?

Otherwise, I'm pretty fond of it just giving .5 Critical Damage, axe builds aside. Maybe that means axe builds need a lookie, not the strength stat.

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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Chaos » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:54 pm

Fern wrote:STR giving 0.5 Critical Damage is still my favorite. But my concern with that is axe builds becoming a lot more bonkers. "Get Critical Evade" isn't a valid response to that, since they can break over 216% Critical Rate with a Berserker Shell and Kensei.

Shujin wrote:I also am in favour for either critical damage increase (Melee, maybe bows, but not guns).
Or simply giving a 0.5 damage to basic attack damage. (again, not guns)

I don't see anything good coming out of increasing stat-based Critical Damage to 1.5 between STR/GUI. At best, STR can still be ignored for GUI. At worst, you have critical damage gone wild, which lightning enchant builds will certainly abuse. STR replacing GUI for critical damage (by default) is possible, but then you're going to force ranged builds to spread their stats too thin. Hence, why I suggested a trait that allows it if you've properly invested in STR.

While I suggested a Trait that made STR apply to Basic Attacks (upto Weapon Power) in the past, it's going to do more harm than help since:

1. It forces everyone to stack Power onto a weapon by default; anything with high Power potential becomes king, and anything with low Power potential is flushed out
2. Thanks to Aptitude and other stat boosters, it's entirely possible to get the most benefits out of the damage boost without having to sink a single point in STR; needless to say, this defeats the purpose of buffing STR to begin with

Even if you bolstered the cap to Weapon Power * 2, it would still retain these issues at large, and drive Basic Attacks out of control in the process.
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye

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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Lolzytripd » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:16 am

no it wouldn't it would put basic attacks back at where they were when power applied twice....


which is a good healthy spot compared to autohits.

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Fern
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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Fern » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:27 am

How I see it, autohits currently deal with Evasion's damage reduction, there's only really a few cases where their scaling are much higher than a normal attack. Maybe if STR also acted as a Scaled/2 percent increase to your basic attack damage, but I'm not sure at this point. Once more, such change would make axe builds incredibly absurd anyway.

What if, assuming the 0.5 Crit Damage per 1 STR is chosen, axes are tweaked to not end up horribly crazy with the change... and this bonus ended up only applying to basic attacks or physical in general? It'd prevent lightning mages from becoming any more insane, and people would still consider GUI for skill slots / flanking hit bonus.
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Re: Invigoring STR (again)

Postby Raigen.Convict » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:10 pm

My oppinion is that you have to divide stats so thin to really do crap as a basic attacker.
What's first? Aptitude at 43 so you can have free points. Next, Skill to 60 to even REMOTELY be able to hit, now we move on to cel, that has to hit 60 or more. then 40+ luck...Aw crap, we're almost dry. Uhhh Let's go for a last few points in vitality to not die. From here we rely on class stuff to help us until we decide to legend extend, and this is at level 60...
OOC Devourer Of Souls: it makes me feel like someone slipped me acid laced water


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