Great Reckoning Discussion

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Ranylyn
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Re: Great Reckoning Discussion

Postby Ranylyn » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:22 am

Mokou-tan wrote:So, has anyone sat and done the 1-60 run on a fresh character on the test server yet? I'd be interested to see how that is effected, but haven't had time for The Grind. You may end up making some difficult stat choices that would force you away from an "optimal" build or something. From what I've seen and done myself, it looks like commonly people grab their 60 which has all their skills, talents and traits and just grabs the stats, but you may not be able to progress without putting points into stats you would never touch because X enemy is near impossible to kill with your build as it is. Then again, there's always trailing behind someone stronger on Training Day. Still, might be important to look at since new players are a thing and I don't think I've seen plans for a stat reset item.


I'm trying to do this, but I never seem to find the right times to check if the Beta is up for testing. I gave up on checking in regularly like a week ago. And naturally, when I do play, I never see a single other player grinding since everyone's beating one another to death in the arena.

Spoops wrote:Please do not overlook this matter, this one is serious and needs to be dealt with

The equipment tab, I don't think players should be able to view other people's equipments, it causes metagaming and well, I forsee it only causing problems in the future.

'Oh I see you're a holding a rebelling fullgust and have general dodgy stuff, that must mean this is a wind mage, lemme just go ahead and equip my breezecloth sylph cloak and cloak of many colors'

This will happen, eventually it'll just be people holding all types of specific elemental resist gear.

Or can it at least be a toggleable option like guild badges? Equipment should at LEAST be private, GMs have a equipment view verb for conflicts and problems do they not?


I'm on the fence for both sides. I see your point completely and I do agree, but I also find it's an issue that someone can have no idea what kind of weapons someone is even holding unless the description pictures/mentions it... and most don't.

Even if the exact gear isn't shown, it'd be great to at least see what classification of gear to expect, because "Oh, that boy is wearing a T-Shirt and shorts - oh no wait he's wearing full heavy plate HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO (not) KNOW THAT!?" I think the best system for this would be a grey icon shaped like the weapon type, and displaying the player's name for it instead of what it really is - so you can at least tell, "Okay, I know to expect spear skills, even though I get that they're RPing it as a rapier, gotcha."
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Re: Great Reckoning Discussion

Postby MegaBlues » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:40 am

Being able to know what mechanical skills someone will be using based on the mechanical weapon type, instead of what they're RPing, is metagame.

There's no purpose for regular players to be able to see one another's equipment other than metagame.

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Re: Great Reckoning Discussion

Postby Ranylyn » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:50 am

MegaBlues wrote:Being able to know what mechanical skills someone will be using based on the mechanical weapon type, instead of what they're RPing, is metagame.

There's no purpose for regular players to be able to see one another's equipment other than metagame.


Pretending to be lightly clothed while packing armor with a weight of 30 or more is every bit as metagamey, as it fools opponents into doing things they would not otherwise do, such as attacking physically when they have a way to attack magically. That's EXACTLY why I said to show the name of the gear and type of weapon but not specifics; in this example of heavy armor on a character wearing light clothes, it would be cool to "feel" their barrier spell, but not knowing the exact specifics of it.

I've seen it all, trust me. It's every bit as egregious as the reverse.
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Re: Great Reckoning Discussion

Postby Rendar » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:52 am

So. What you're saying is. Because someone is RPing their heavy armor with a weight of 30... as light armor, or even just normal clothes... you're going to metagame knowing that "WOW MY NORMAL PHYSICAL STRIKE PROBABLY WON'T WORK!" and instead just resort to spamming magical attacks without even testing physical attacks first?

That is literally the definition of metagaming.
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Re: Great Reckoning Discussion

Postby Ranylyn » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:05 am

Rendar wrote:So. What you're saying is. Because someone is RPing their heavy armor with a weight of 30... as light armor, or even just normal clothes... you're going to metagame knowing that "WOW MY NORMAL PHYSICAL STRIKE PROBABLY WON'T WORK!" and instead just resort to spamming magical attacks without even testing physical attacks first?

That is literally the definition of metagaming.


Continuing with my example: Profile picture shows normal clothes, actual equipment name is, say, "Gambeson." Which are they really wearing? A gambeson isn't plate, but it's still armor, in a sense. If you really want to argue that you should not be able to tell if someone is wearing a gambeson instead of a basic T-Shirt purely for the sake of hiding their equipment and taking someone off guard, I have bad news for you: That's equally metagamey. By that logic, no one should ever have a profile picture with any weapon or armor since omfg they see what I have metagame, let's all just be schoolgirls because lol.

By the way, this example? Me. One time, in the past, I found heavy armor that was better for my character than the light armor I was using. I PVP'd in it. Everyone completely EXPLODED at me for it, since my character was essentially robed but had 30 natural defense and good heavy armor. I find it hilariously ironic that now, people are in favor of this because it favors them. Very funny.
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Re: Great Reckoning Discussion

Postby Neus » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:59 am

Rendar wrote:So. What you're saying is. Because someone is RPing their heavy armor with a weight of 30... as light armor, or even just normal clothes... you're going to metagame knowing that "WOW MY NORMAL PHYSICAL STRIKE PROBABLY WON'T WORK!" and instead just resort to spamming magical attacks without even testing physical attacks first?

That is literally the definition of metagaming.


This sort of example is just an argument for the system being beneficial. Metagaming goes both ways, people. If you're wearing heavy armor, then yes, you're wearing heavy armor. If you're a vampire, you're not a Felidae that can suck blood just because you have cat ears. You are a vampire. The fact that there has been no credibility for this stupidity up until now has made people overly comfortable with outright lying. Intentionally obscuring things that should be obvious to anyone who looks at you is metagaming as well. Not only that, but it's bad roleplaying. Your character is a person with an appearance, things they are wearing, things they are doing in battle, not a big grey blob of perfect concealment that only gives even the most painfully obvious details when they feel like it.

There is some leg-room for creativity, but it needs to be supported by logic, sense, and/or lore, not 'I just felt like roleplaying that I have a super impenetrable t-shirt instead'.

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Re: Great Reckoning Discussion

Postby Someone » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:33 pm

How about... Show the equipment types but not the exact equipment? Say X is holding a polearm type weapon...

Is it a standard Spear? Maybe it's an Impaler. Soul Stealer, even? Anyway, I doubt they all look like a carbon-copy of the icon. People have black spears, white spears, red spears...

I doubt you'd know what it is and what it does and how well it does it, just by merely looking at it. Especially outside of a battle situation, when weapons are put away, deactivated, etc...
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Re: Great Reckoning Discussion

Postby Sawrock » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:14 pm

I think this has been brought up, but. Having a visible equipment is bad for the game due to the 30% resist items, and enchantments such as Holy. If, for example, I see you're using an earth sword, I would equip an isespian charm, which in turn my foe would switch to no longer using an earth sword, etc, until the battle actually started with one of us not secretly switching out items in time. I wouldn't actually switch my items, mind (I believe in the one-loadout-per-character method), but I can see that scenario easily happening. With the holy example, I have a character who always has dual holy weapons equipped, even if not fighting a vampire. If a vampire character would look at my equipment, they could do two things that would be negative to roleplay: they could flee and make up a reason for such, since they OOCly know holy is a weakness, or they could accuse me of metagaming that they are a vampire, which I would not be, as I always have them equipped.
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Re: Great Reckoning Discussion

Postby Neus » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:44 pm

Someone wrote:How about... Show the equipment types but not the exact equipment? Say X is holding a polearm type weapon...

Is it a standard Spear? Maybe it's an Impaler. Soul Stealer, even? Anyway, I doubt they all look like a carbon-copy of the icon. People have black spears, white spears, red spears...

I doubt you'd know what it is and what it does and how well it does it, just by merely looking at it. Especially outside of a battle situation, when weapons are put away, deactivated, etc...


I believe I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but when talents and traits get reworked, there will be ways to obscure what you have equipped if you take the appropriate talent/traits (and it makes sense). I will also keep your suggestion in mind for a 'generic' output of what you can see. For the moment, it'll have to stay as is (we can consider this a 'real test' of it) but I plan to do some more Great Reckoning stuff after the next update, and that might be talents.


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