The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

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Spoops
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The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Spoops » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:58 am

Lightning crits on skills seem to do way too much damage, they scale harder than basic attack crits most of the time due to all the modifiers they receive.


In perspective, lightning criticals start at 1.25x (With respective talents spent) before your GUI, meaning with 50 GUI you can deal 1.75x damage, not a lot of weapons other than axes and daggers can do this, its especially abusive with Crystal Rose and Crescent Rook, both scale tremendously well.


And because these are autohits they only need to go through the critical check, so I think that first off, swift effects for lightning criticals should scale half of your GUI to start off, this will help set them in line.

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MegaBlues
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby MegaBlues » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:12 am

Considering that as a lightning mage, all you get out of Guile is the critical modifier, I think it's fine as is. The only real issue is AoE lighting criticals from elemental impact, but that would require a different fix.

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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Kameron8 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:16 am

MegaBlues wrote:Considering that as a lightning mage, all you get out of Guile is the critical modifier, I think it's fine as is. The only real issue is AoE lighting criticals from elemental impact, but that would require a different fix.


Ah yes, the classic 'I support this change, except for the parts that nerf mages'. Swift autohits are sometimes doing more damage than critical hits with weapon attacks, and lightning spells crush the rest of the elements in terms of damage. Ryemei offers strong utility in terms of Interference -- as opposed to something like Libegrande, which exists exclusively to work with intensify cold -- and Overload is still notorious for killing people as badly as Isenshi and Exgalfa.

Couple all of this with the fact that lightning resist is much harder to come by than the other elements, and you have the current state of affairs.

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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Spoops » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:21 am

MegaBlues wrote:Considering that as a lightning mage, all you get out of Guile is the critical modifier, I think it's fine as is. The only real issue is AoE lighting criticals from elemental impact, but that would require a different fix.


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As a lightning physical attacker I have to disagree with your statement, for overload specifically, if for some reason someone has any amount of bonus stats they take thousands upon thousands of damage because of Greaper.

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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Lolzytripd » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:24 am

I agree with spoops 100% in this topic.

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MegaBlues
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby MegaBlues » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:12 am

The last time I asked Dev, he said that the bonus damage from Overload isn't affected by CM or Greaper, but that was a very long time ago.

But I stick to the opinion that a single target attack should have more damage potential than an AoE attack, and magic has its own counters in the form of silence and elemental resistance. There's also the handy part of Rye and Ryemei being subject to spirit mirror, and the fact that Overload actually has notably lower scaling than the other invitations.

also plz give the numbers that lead up to the final damage done so a meaningful discussion can be had

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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Spoops » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:03 am

MegaBlues wrote:The last time I asked Dev, he said that the bonus damage from Overload isn't affected by CM or Greaper, but that was a very long time ago.

But I stick to the opinion that a single target attack should have more damage potential than an AoE attack, and magic has its own counters in the form of silence and elemental resistance. There's also the handy part of Rye and Ryemei being subject to spirit mirror, and the fact that Overload actually has notably lower scaling than the other invitations.

also plz give the numbers that lead up to the final damage done so a meaningful discussion can be had



I don't think magic should be exempt from this, swift criticals on lightning magic are also a problem and should not be the exception here.

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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Chaos » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:39 am

Spoops wrote:I don't think magic should be exempt from this, swift criticals on lightning magic are also a problem and should not be the exception here.

Except that Rye's only redeeming feature is the critical chance (which isn't even as powerful as a swift autohit), and (even though it was overkill to begin with) Overload's critical chance is its enchant feature.

Let's think a little more about the lightning spells, since they do have far more counters than swift autohits ever will.
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye

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Snake
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Snake » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:18 pm

I only have two problems with lightning criticals, and those are:

1- Conduiz
2- Lightning Badge

Conduiz and the Lightning Badge should be the ones to use 50% of your Critical Damage when critically hitting, instead of 100%. Tomes have no reason to be punished for it, but the alternative ways to abuse lightning? Hell yes.

I do think being enchanted with Redgull is what balances the tremendous power of the enchant, since it can be easily stolen, nulled or Filcherbirb spammed and the enemy will need to waste more Momentum to re-cast it, or even be locked of re-enchanting if silenced and nulled, rendering the enemy mage dangling as useless as a doriad's- Ehem.

As for Overload, remove Overload's 'critical hit' and change it to a longer Interference (8 rounds like Interference Shell) it may make it slightly less overkill and give it a better utility.
Last edited by Snake on Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Image ~ Dev, 08/16/2016.

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Lolzytripd
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Lolzytripd » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:22 pm

Rye is a tier 1 spell, it out performs Fir, Isendo, miu and vyd.

Autohits of any nature should not have the ability to critically hit for more damage than a basic attack that crits.

Chargemind being an exemption to the stipulation, its only comparable to excel/voltiger shenanigans.


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