The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

"VAs are too strong!" "Evokers are too weak!" "Nerf Kinu!"
A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
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Snake
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Snake » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:18 pm

Both works, really. Whichever's easier to implement.
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Image ~ Dev, 08/16/2016.

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Shujin
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Shujin » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:39 pm

I still believe that one of the main problems of all our Damage problems is the way Damage adds together in a chain instead of adding all multis together first before applying to the base damage. This is no exception.

Crystal Rose itself is fine damage wise, so yeah... I´d rather see lightning crits in general getting a hit, they are way to easily accesable.
Come on guys, let´s not nerf base damage of skills when the obvious culprit is the multi added to it, else we make certain skills only valid with lightning.

Also as alternative status effect? Honestly if I hear lightning I hear paralysis, and in a game like this? I would probably make it similiar to how Hesitation currently works. So maybe infliction chance for hesitation instead of crit? Or an effect that works similir to it?

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Neus
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Neus » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:41 am

What are the stats/gear of the people involved in that screenshot?

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Spoops
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Spoops » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:48 am

While I do not know the stats, I can state the situation, I had just gotten up from diehard and used medicopter to try and heal myself a bit in order to try and get myself back into the fight, the OOC Joker quickly moved over with thunderhooves and went to crystal rose me twice, which then crit for a large amount of damage, me in particular I had 20% phys DR and Ogata Waraji, and about 10 armor, so all in all its a dodge character with about 80ish crit evade and some decent enough bulk.

Because Medicopter was alive and so was their team mate, they didn't end up getting 1v1's damage bonus, nor did they get absolute death damage bonus, just the critical bonus.

The second hit was after fear of death and claret call had kicked in, leaving me vunerable to fallcall, massively increasing the damage afterwards, knowing the OOC Joker personally I'd guess they have 40 GUI, and 50 in DKing, meaning their crystal rose would deal 1.75x damage if it crit, but I'll leave that sort of speculation to when/if Fern posts their details.

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Fern
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Fern » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:19 pm

[BIG POST WARNING]

My stats before Death Knighting and Redgull:

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My stats after Death Knighting (White Spirit) and Redgull:

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My Weapon and SWA before Death Knighting:

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My Swift Crystal Rose critical before Death Knighting:

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My Swift Crystal Rose after Death Knighting, with Fallcall's feared enemy bonus, Absolute Death , Bloody Palms' Hunted and Splash up. As you can see, the numbers can get ridiculous with about anything if you stack a large amount of damage amplifiers:

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My hit and critical before any kind of buff:

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My hit and critical after the buffs shown in the screenshot:

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I could bump up that critical higher with Absolute Death, past 200%. Getting this much critical is quite a long set up- but as you can see, it's incredibly easy to stack hit.

My equipment:

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From top to bottom order, in case listing is needed:

Raijin
Armor of Eyes (Big offender when it comes to easy hit stacking, currently serving as the best unarmored item in the entire game with nothing that rivals it.)
Bloody Palms
Ogata's Waraji
Heron Feather (To counter-attack the immediate Absolute Fear silence, since that was very frequent before Ranger update. I utilize this to guarantee my Death Knighting transformation in most cases.)
High Mage Cape (I could live without this just fine.)

My classes and race:

Kensei/Spellthief
Agile Mechanation (the irony)
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Shujin
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Shujin » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:36 am

And just to add on this and my usual concern with how damage stacking currently works.

Fern Is doing roughly 178 damage without critting or any multi

So the damage right now (not the exact numbers but not far off):

Chain-calculation: 178 base Damage*1.75(Crit)*1.1(1vs1)*1.25(Absulute Death)*1.25(Splash)*1.5(Fallcall)*1.17(Chimera paint prayer+bloodypalms/Hunted)=939 damage

Mods added togeter before: 178*(1+(0.75+0.1+0.25+0.25+0.5+0.17))=537.56 damage

So alone with this change we can combat insane damage multi stacking in future, and almost half this damage, while people that use like only two multipilers are barely noticing any change.

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MegaBlues
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby MegaBlues » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:02 am

Maybe, instead of nerfing any source of damage in particular, we can make damage modifiers additive rather than multiplicative.

So that 1.00*1.75*1.1*1.25*1.25*1.5*1.17=5.98, we could have

1.00+.75+.1+.25+.25+.5+.17=3.02

This would keep individual damage sources independently strong, while people who stack every buff under the sun see less output.

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Rendar
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Rendar » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:46 am

That'd probably be the better way to do it, admittedly.
Galeon Zviera's turn.
Critical Hit! Galeon Zviera attacks Jammer with Floating Red Letter and hits them!
Jammer takes 8420 Pierce damage.

Tiny Fawn Girl recovered 8550 HP.
Isabelline recovered 8550 HP.


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Chaos
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Chaos » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:37 am

MegaBlues wrote:Maybe, instead of nerfing any source of damage in particular, we can make damage modifiers additive rather than multiplicative.

So that 1.00*1.75*1.1*1.25*1.25*1.5*1.17=5.98, we could have

1.00+.75+.1+.25+.25+.5+.17=3.02

This would keep individual damage sources independently strong, while people who stack every buff under the sun see less output.

I can get behind this.
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye

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Spoops
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Re: The lightning hits for a fatal blow!

Postby Spoops » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:41 am

I've thought about it before and I thought it'd perhaps be better as a seperate thread, damage stacking being additive would ultimately be better for the game and was a thought at some point, but when it comes to critical damage which is a damage modifier you stat for I thought the case would be just a little bit different in that regard.


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