Screamer self damage

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Sarinpa1
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Screamer self damage

Postby Sarinpa1 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:43 pm

insert obligatory cries of being rekt

Now let's move onto the topic at hand.

Screamer self damage counts towards Matador and Narcus.

That means you just have to dump shitton of HP, use screamer, dish out immense damage. Particuairly helpful if you're actualy getting silenced.
Pack it with damaging status effects, you're looking at unreasonable damage which you have very little defense againts.
Add interference and you're helpless.

Add EI to the mix with Narcus and yeah.
This is not something only squishies are affected by. Even the fattiest of fatsies get absolutely destroyed by these.
pls fix

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Fern
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Re: Screamer self damage

Postby Fern » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:20 pm

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It also makes you take about 210+ damage if you specifically build for it. In most cases, it leaves you highly vulnerable after trying it, unless it's a one-on-one. I'm speaking from personal experience with it.

The screenshot's example dons 1100+ HP, as well as an off-handed Screaming Tome.

It can get absurd, yes. If I remember correctly, Screamer is not even supposed to buff Matador's Rage Energy, and the problem with Narcus is just that all the damage you take is returned to the enemy as damage.

So I want to say that the problem is mainly Narcus, and that lowering the amount of LV it gets when you take damage (by 50%) or capping it will kill two birds with one stone, in a way.
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Re: Screamer self damage

Postby Chaos » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:23 pm

I'd rather just keep Screamer from pumping up Narcus, instead of trying to target Narcus for no fault of its own.
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Re: Screamer self damage

Postby Spoops » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:32 pm

Narcus has been THE most abusable weapon in the entire game bar none since the great reckoning, spewing several balance threads and the such to no avail, but I have to agree with Chaos in that Screamer in your off hand is just way too strong in 1v1s, I'd opt to make Narcus and Matador's passive rage gain not proc from self-damage.

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Re: Screamer self damage

Postby Stenzio » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:51 am

For Matador? It shouldn't be adding to rage energy. That can actually be stored and kept to be used for multiple targets. I can understand that, much as the amount of damage it still deals to you should justify it.

The Narcus? It literally turns you into, at best, a one-hit wonder or close to a one hit wonder. But, as Fern showed, makes you beyond vulnerable. The only way you can make it much relevant is using the Screamer tome twice. Which in that instance? Makes you lose a whopping 420+ HP. Which then has brought you down from 1100+ HP to around 500+ HP. You literally can do it once. It's good in One versus Ones, but utterly suffers in Team Fights.

Given that I don't see an issue in it. But if it really needs a nerf? The one Fern suggested sounds perfect.

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Re: Screamer self damage

Postby Sarinpa1 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:50 am

You return the exact damage back you dealt to yourself. Plus fair bit more.
If you have more HP than them, create enough of a damage cap between you and them so they can't bridge it before you pull off the wombocombo, they're dead. Nothing about it. Ende. Schlüss. RIP.

Narcus itself might be the issue, yes. But for starters, screamer should definetly not contribute toward it.

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Re: Screamer self damage

Postby Slydria » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:28 pm

Screamer is honestly not the way I'd use Narcus. While yes, it gives you a big chunk of damage in one go, you're also giving up the biggest advantage of the Narcus which is that instead of just letting opponents use their Momentum to boost the effect, you're using your own. So whether that's intended or not, I don't think it's an issue either way.

Narcus is definitely the issue here, the effect gives you such a large amount of free bonus damage over the course of a fight, as long as you can land the hit in the short window. Narcus is especially effective on builds with massive amounts of HP (like the one Fern showed) or on builds that can heal tons of HP.

Narcus is way too free for my liking. I'm iffy on suggesting a hard cap again since when this item was first introduced, it had a cap of your Level which resulted in very few people using it. I think the best way to go about this would be trying Fern's suggestion of it only building 50% of the damage taken so it's more in line with other "retaliation" effects like Crystal Mirror, Brightray Bulwark, etc.
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Rendar
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Re: Screamer self damage

Postby Rendar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:46 pm

Narcus is one of four elemental swords

Water, Light, Dark, Fire.

Water's effect reduces every damage instance you take by 5-7.
Light lets you see stats, but not too many stats because that's OP
Dark lets you avoid traps, as if you were under the effects of Flight, but doesn't ignore forced movement into them.
Narcus gives you shittons of free damage for an enemy hitting you, allowing you to redirect the damage you took into a paintrain for your enemy.


See the difference?

Narcus needs to be lowered in just what-the-hell it can do, or the other 3 elemental blades need to be turned up in just what they can do to put them more in line with the bullshit that is Narcus.

Screamer isn't the issue here (as it does provide a very realistic drawback, which is "OH NO, MY ENEMY IS USING A RED LETTER. NOW I HEAL THEM EVERY TIME I HIT THEM).

Narcus + Screamer Offhand = Red Letter wins
Narcus + Nihilist = Fuck you thats why.

Let's move to the more pertinent issue that is "Narcus is one of the best weapons in the game and with great scaling, also gets the ability to be two-handed and dish out a shitton of damage to your enemy."
Galeon Zviera's turn.
Critical Hit! Galeon Zviera attacks Jammer with Floating Red Letter and hits them!
Jammer takes 8420 Pierce damage.

Tiny Fawn Girl recovered 8550 HP.
Isabelline recovered 8550 HP.


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Re: Screamer self damage

Postby Snake » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:44 pm

Narcus's LV obtained from receiving damage should be halved. Slydria said everything that was in my mind. And don't forget there's no way to dodge a Ghost/Hexer with 1200 HP and 60% DEF/RES using Narcus + Screamer along with Ether Invitation due to Pilfa's Masochism. (Or heck, STR, SKI and LUC are not even needed, so they invest in DEF/RES/VIT and laugh at whatever comes at them.)

The only counterplay in this case is heavily investing in Fire Resistance or using Red Letter, which is kind of... 'bool'. The whole need to use a different equipment just because a specific enemy setup is broken, I mean.

Just a wild brainstorm. Why not make Narcus cap at LV (Scaled STR * 3)? I'm already fine upvoting the -50% from damage received, but making STR matter a bit for Narcus could be a nice alternative.
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Image ~ Dev, 08/16/2016.

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Re: Screamer self damage

Postby Exxy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:15 am

Spoops wrote:I'd opt to make Narcus and Matador's passive rage gain not proc from self-damage.


I'm of a like mind when it comes to this. I'd say this would be a good first step and then if it's not enough we can come back to seeing the damage to status level on the Narcus lowering another time (just halving it seems jumpy - although that may just be because the way I remember it, it wasn't absolute damage where you hit the level it's status was specified at... it's been a while so maybe I remember wrong; someone correct me if I'm wrong).
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