Another STR Topic

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Chaos
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Re: Another STR Topic

Postby Chaos » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:03 am

Slydria wrote:The only thought I have as an idea would be making BW have a more of an impact in general so there's more reason for players to pick up STR. So far, it's largely of no consequence, since whenever you have weight issues, it's easy to just use Talents to offset that: Hauler or weight reducing Weapon Expertises instead of Strength, so those particular things may need a nerf.

As it stands, Battle Weight is a lost cause; anyone who doesn't want STR can simply Base + APT Strength, with Hauler and maybe a weight reducer, to ignore it. (Even the Feather enchant isn't at all necessary) The only builds challenged by BW are builds that want STR anyways. Even if someone runs over, what's the penalty? -2 Hit/Evade per point? You can safely miss 3~5 points and not be bothered, especially if you have an autohit build.

That being said, unless you're keen on considerably nerfing Hauler and most weight reducers, I don't think messing with BW will solve the issue of STR being utterly incompetent when SWA isn't involved.
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye

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Re: Another STR Topic

Postby Sarinpa1 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:44 pm

Gear stuff is iffy.
We already have to be frightened of the sanctuary/other debuffs if we don't want to tell our momentum bye bye, unless we invest into the special talento.
Nerfing the talent would mean builds that don't give a flying fuck about str (mage that doesnt abuse fire field effect ) would still have to invest a decent amount of str, which in theory makes sense if the mage is wearing heavy armor, but it'd put them in not too good of a spot in terms of amount of points invested.

Granting bonus hit/evade would have to be careful, since another possibly large boost to either could whip out problems of kind "If you're a tank, you can't ever dream to hit those dodge stackers."

Since the thread is appearantely to encourage more people to build STR as main stat instead of using other stats for damage, since the fire field effect and autohits of certain overused class appearantely isn't enough, i dont think equipment having weight would be a good way to aproach this, since it's an arrow to the knee to people not focusing on STR at all, rather than giving those that actualy do a pat on the back.

But,I disagree with more raw power for reasons mentioned by Sly and in few of the previous threads/posts.

It also occurs to me, I remember seeing a very cheap (and as far as I know, craftable) weapon that has 110% STR scaling. Now that's a nice scaling.
Fist weapon with 105%, I'm honestly not sure if there's weapons with purely one stat in such numbers. And then there's alot of mixing. Maybe the issue lies in the actual weapon scaling, since it'd make sense for melee weapons to actualy rely on str most, if not all of the time. I remember specificaly picking a katana with the lowest STR scaling to circumvent the need for it.
There you have it, motivation to grab str if you're actualy adding force n' momentum to weapon againts an opponent.

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Re: Another STR Topic

Postby Chaos » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:48 pm

Sarinpa1 wrote:It also occurs to me, I remember seeing a very cheap (and as far as I know, craftable) weapon that has 110% STR scaling. Now that's a nice scaling.
Fist weapon with 105%, I'm honestly not sure if there's weapons with purely one stat in such numbers. And then there's alot of mixing. Maybe the issue lies in the actual weapon scaling, since it'd make sense for melee weapons to actualy rely on str most, if not all of the time. I remember specificaly picking a katana with the lowest STR scaling to circumvent the need for it.
There you have it, motivation to grab str if you're actualy adding force n' momentum to weapon againts an opponent.

The point is to give STR reason to be used when its not the main offensive stat. Spells would not get this boost because they already benefit greatly from Fire ATK, unless you want to tell me that Cinder effects, Explosion and Exgalfa aren't worth it.

No one can deny that STR is useful when you need it for most of your damage. This does not change the fact that it's completely useless outside of this. It's not a 'niche' stat, it's a binary switch that centers around SWA. Anything that works without scaling on STR/Fire ATK is a prime example, particularly anything that uses SKI or GUI for their damage scaling. Why, in any of these builds, would you use STR if it wasn't a part of the weapon scaling or a secondary effect's scaling? VIT covers Inventory Capacity. BW is easily handled by talents. There is nothing else STR can contribute for. (yes, Arbalest wants lots of BW, but they're a part of the group that wants STR for most of its damage)

Yes, adjusting weapon scalings is possible, but that is a last-ditch effort if nothing can be done to pull STR out of being a 'SWA or bust' stat. Forcing people to build STR for even decent SWA does nothing but strangle build variety, and push people towards any other offensive stat that actually has useful effects going for them. That might 'solve' STR's dilemma, but for the wrong reasons.
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye

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Re: Another STR Topic

Postby Fern » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:12 pm

I'd like to point out that most Arbalests avoid STR like the plague unless they're running Oil Chain, right now. Not even Heavy Tackle appeals to them, unless they have nothing better to invest in SP-wise.

They'd rather build for Filcherbird, Bow of the Green Forest, or a mutated Magnifying Glass into bow since they think those weapons scale off more useful stats. Occasionally Thorn Shooter, solely for the effect rather than STR scaling.

Making STR be all melee weapon's attack scaling stat, in my opinion, is not really a better solution since it makes the stat come off as "eh, do I really have to grab this" instead of "hey, this might be a fun stat to fit into my build." Not only that, but that route makes me think of it as Aptitude 2.0, where you're forced to take it if you want to be a 'decent' build in most cases.

The proposed change in the opening isn't world-ending, not even an incredibly large impact for critical builds if you do the math. It's an okay placeholder until a much better route springs up, I believe. So far this has become Ether Invitation thread 2.0, and that makes it even less likely for STR to change at all.
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Re: Another STR Topic

Postby Poruku » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:04 pm

About staves not using str if you have god rod: It should increase the power of physical attacks, not spells. Basically if you hit people in the face with a staff, strength should count. Doesn't matter if you know how to cast spells with it or not.

Edit: Should be the case with spelledge too. Basically physical damage that uses weapons should have a bonus from str. Not giving a bonus to power


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