My power is rising... overflowing...!

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Fern
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My power is rising... overflowing...!

Postby Fern » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:36 pm

Alright so, it's probably better for this to get its own thread, rather than be mentioned every time.

Damage stacking currently gets out of hand, simply because of its math being multiplicative. Usually it involves packing Fallcall, Hunted (Bloody Palms), Absolute Death, Charge Mind, Voltiger, Greaper... lightning talent that boosts your damage on shocking criticals, and pretty much almost every damage buffer ever.

The reason it's an issue, is because multiplicative calculations appear to make its damage reach insane levels, regardless of one's damage reduction. To provide some examples:

This is the test subject in question for most of these screenshots, except the Poison one. The following stats were used:
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Isenshi with Charge Mind, Fallcall and the Rank % Bonus, as well as Greaper
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Charge Mind Ryemei with Fallcall and Hunted, as well as 36 GUI.
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Fallcall Earth Spells, with Charge Mind for the Magaisendo.
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Absolute Death, Fallcall, Hunted up.
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Swift Crystal Rose with Fallcall, Hunted, Absolute Death and Splash up.
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Normal poison damage from Wretched Oil, before and after getting Fallcall with Menov's Fang. You could slap Bloody Palms on this to make the damage even higher, maybe Imagin's Despair. It's actually not that hard to pull off, after you succeed the invocation.
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There's many other examples, and others are welcome to present their own. If you involve Hunted in your damage stacking, you usually can grab the Chimeric Prayer which boosts its LV by 5, usually when it's max loyalty. I did not use such prayer for these screenshots, unfortunately, but you can imagine what the damage would end up being.

That said, a few solutions to this easily accessible problem have been mentioned, so far.

A) Creating diminishing returns for damage increases.
B) Nerfing Bloody Palms and Fallcall, since they're the most common in these set ups.
C) Making the math become additive, instead of multiplicative.


Personally, I'm leaning towards C, because I feel that it'd solve many issues in one go- the damage turns out to be much more bearable when the math is additive instead.

Here's a quick example of Multiplicative versus Additive:

Shujin wrote:And just to add on this and my usual concern with how damage stacking currently works.

Fern Is doing roughly 178 damage without critting or any multi

So the damage right now (not the exact numbers but not far off):

Chain-calculation: 178 base Damage*1.75(Crit)*1.1(1vs1)*1.25(Absulute Death)*1.25(Splash)*1.5(Fallcall)*1.17(Chimera paint prayer+bloodypalms/Hunted)=939 damage

Mods added togeter before: 178*(1+(0.75+0.1+0.25+0.25+0.5+0.17))=537.56 damage

So alone with this change we can combat insane damage multi stacking in future, and almost half this damage, while people that use like only two multipilers are barely noticing any change.



So what do you think?
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Shujin
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Re: My power is rising... overflowing...!

Postby Shujin » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:43 pm

Well, as seen in the quote of mine, I also quite obviously lean towards C.

That way we do not need to touch any of ther other skills really, and it´s also future proofing addtional Item effects/Classes etc.

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Re: My power is rising... overflowing...!

Postby Snake » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:52 pm

C is the correct way to go, to be honest.

It also future-proofs any percentage-based items or buffs/debuffs that are to be added to never become abusive.
PS: god damn it shujin stop copying me-
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Image ~ Dev, 08/16/2016.

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Re: My power is rising... overflowing...!

Postby Spoops » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:19 pm

Option C where you make damage stacking additive is the most preferred option, even if it requires overhalling damage buffs in general I think its necessary.

If there is absolutely not way of doing that, I'd go with my other option I suggested in another thread where you only make the highest multiplier in statuses apply.

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Re: My power is rising... overflowing...!

Postby Lolzytripd » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:55 pm

hopefully when this is reviewed the solution can touch on excel weapons, so that they don't fall in the sometimes awful-sometimes overgodkill never reliable range anymore.


https://i.gyazo.com/b84778c5101ce6b834e ... 379044.png

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Re: My power is rising... overflowing...!

Postby Snake » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:35 pm

Oof.
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K Peculier
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Re: My power is rising... overflowing...!

Postby K Peculier » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:42 pm

Agreed with option C as well.

Additive damage would also slow down battles which is a good thing for roleplay. We don't need to end fights of two Level 60 players in less than three rounds because of multipliers to percentage damage.
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