Tarnada

"VAs are too strong!" "Evokers are too weak!" "Nerf Kinu!"
A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
User avatar
Spoops
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2202
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:25 am
Location: Somewhere

Tarnada

Postby Spoops » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:58 am

Tarnada really needs to throw out wind slashers instead of Vydels, Vydel gains a lot of damage from Greaper, scales tremendously well and can displace and knockdown an entire team with good positioning, as well as deal a shit load of damage to them, at some points it not just Evokers that benefit so heavily from using it, its anyone equipped with a Saturn Badge or has access to Talvyd, and equips a tome as well.

All of this happens on a lucky 3m crit, while it is a chance, the scales the chance tips is drastically in favor of the Tarnada user when it does happen.

User avatar
Akame
Talkative Poster
Talkative Poster
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Tarnada

Postby Akame » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:41 am

a full ranged wind slasher sounds good to me.
Keys: BlackPhoenixLina, Mirandaftw, ChessBelle, DarkPhoenixLina, BlackCat0, EmptyBPL
Image

User avatar
K Peculier
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:11 am

Re: Tarnada

Postby K Peculier » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:11 pm

Vydel is insanely amazing in general especially with good wind attack, plus it KD gurantees when enchanted with Vydel, and since the nerf of HOTG because of the guranteed KD, it should probably apply here as well. Tarnada has excellent scaling and it counts as a katana/sword even.

Wind Slasher sounds reasonable and is also thematic.

User avatar
Spoops
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2202
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:25 am
Location: Somewhere

Re: Tarnada

Postby Spoops » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:14 pm

Either that or reduce the rate of which it occurs, similar to skull caver.

User avatar
Chaos
GM
GM
Posts: 921
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:35 pm
Location: nope

Re: Tarnada

Postby Chaos » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:25 pm

Spoops wrote:Vydel gains a lot of damage from Greaper, scales tremendously well and can displace and knockdown an entire team with good positioning, as well as deal a shit load of damage to them, at some points it not just Evokers that benefit so heavily from using it, its anyone equipped with a Saturn Badge or has access to Talvyd, and equips a tome as well.

This sounds like a cry to nerf Vydel, not Tarnada. All the katana does is provide an unreliable method to throw out a tornado, and forces a strict build on anyone wishing to make it happen at full capacity, assuming the user builds enough critical and doesn't run into any Liches. An Evoker can do a far more consistent and powerful work, alongside inflicting KD just by starting up the invocation.

Seeing as Vydel is the only reason why Tarnada is still relevant today, the worst of a nerf it would need is either a 1-2 round cooldown on throwing out Vydel, or a lower activation rate.
Image
[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye

User avatar
Spoops
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2202
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:25 am
Location: Somewhere

Re: Tarnada

Postby Spoops » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:00 pm

Vydel is an invocation worth 9m no matter how you look at it, nerfing it just to jab at Tarnada is a bit silly.

a very large issue is also the interaction with charge mind, and again the momentum difference of a free Vydel vs a hard casted Vydel, I think at some point Dev brought up the possibility of changing the Vydel from Tarnada to be something different from an actual Vydel, one that doesn't benefit from charge mind, but even at that point I think that version would have to be toned down from the actual Vydel.

User avatar
Snake
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2149
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: O.W.L.S Underground Motherbase - Main Office

Re: Tarnada

Postby Snake » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:42 pm

Wind Slasher is A-OK.
Image
Image ~ Dev, 08/16/2016.

User avatar
Neus
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4989
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:53 pm

Re: Tarnada

Postby Neus » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:52 am

Wind Slasher would have its own share of problems, primarily that it doesn't move the enemy out of attack range.

User avatar
Spoops
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2202
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:25 am
Location: Somewhere

Re: Tarnada

Postby Spoops » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:32 am

Neus wrote:Wind Slasher would have its own share of problems, primarily that it doesn't move the enemy out of attack range.


Thats a good argument, after thinking on it for a few minutes I can't seem to think of anything that isn't too boring for Tarnada itself.

The only decent idea I had was to make it so that Tarnada grants +1/2 UL Wind ATK (Does not stack) and always counts you as enchanted with Talvyd. (No earth resistance penalty either)


But what do you suggest? I'll note out the problems I have with Tarnada in jotted points under the spoiler.


-Vydel is a large impact skill, boasting high damage and insane displacement, alongside a knockdown with Talvyd, with this being free, with essentially no momentum cost it gets out of hand.

-The chance for this free Vydel is very high, happening 1/4 times on average.

-Is especially abusable when put alongside Evoker or Spellthief, who gain large amounts of damage with spells.

-Can possibly win an entire fight based on positioning and chance.

User avatar
Akame
Talkative Poster
Talkative Poster
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Tarnada

Postby Akame » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:40 pm

What about changing Vydel's travel path when casted from the tarnada? Like, instead of using Evoker Vydel's travel path, it could travel clockwise like this following the numbers, for example.
Image

At that point, you can have the tarnada's skill be completely separate from Vydel, and have it scale off 240% wind atk or something. That way it's not affected by charge mind, and no knockdown to worry about.
Keys: BlackPhoenixLina, Mirandaftw, ChessBelle, DarkPhoenixLina, BlackCat0, EmptyBPL
Image


Return to “Balance Fu”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests