Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

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Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

Postby Snake » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:43 am

Oof. It has been an year since I've made the other thread and it was utterly cast aside due to the current things the game needed, so new january, new thread in honor for our Kinu/Dante fans. Let's get the yearly Dev pestering done with, aye?

Demon Hunter is underpowered as a class. Most of its gimmickey utility was nerfed or revamped in some way. The class needs a review itself, and maybe new features. The problem of it only comes because Soldier, as a class, offers them nothing to back up their power, unlike let's say, Spellthieves, who have bonuses to Evade/Evasion from Rogue, and even further with their ability to snatch spells and overbuff themselves.

I don't quite want to bicker much about it because the problems are pretty apparent when you play it in the game atleast once, against any other enemy setup, and you get a bad time even against NPCs. And what I think it could solve the problem is adjusting the stances to give statistics to back up what they needed, status wise, like this:

Reaver Stance - While active, grants the Demon Hunter (10 * Rank) Hit against enemies within 1 range.

Cobra Stance - While active, grants the Demon Hunter (10 * Rank) Evade against enemies who are slower than you.

Desperado Stance - While active, grants the Demon Hunter (10 * Rank) Critical against enemies beyond 1 range.

Matador Stance - While active, grants the Demon Hunter damage reduction, based on the HP difference between you and your attacker. (1% per 2% HP difference, max. 5 * Rank%)**

**Example/Explanation:
If your attacker has 100% of their HP while attacking you, and you have 50%, for example, you receive a 15% less damage while in Matador stance, if Matador Stance's Rank is at maximum.
If they have 100%, and you have 90%, you gain 5%.
If they have 100% and you have 80%, you gain 10%.
Etc.

(Note that the gimmick is that if you're not spamming their HP percentage down with Bellowing Stag and Cursed Wounds, you'll make a better use of this. Since Cursed Wounds don't affect the enemy's HP percentage, for reducing from their maximum HP right beside the damage. Koonai smart mechanics.)


Everything presented above will also probably be halved if Demon Hunter is not your main class. (Even though I don't wish for this, if we're buffing Demon Hunter's stances. But depends on what people want, I guess.) So! Is this a fine suggestion? I'd put more about Reaver and Combination Fighter, but there's already a thread running separately.

Now salt and whine about how broken those are to your heart's content. Be free my children!
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Re: Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

Postby Fern » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:19 am

Not many people like using Demon Hunter anymore, because of how underpowered it feels compared to the rest of the Class Board. I also feel that Reaver's general skill set could use a small damage buff, since one of the most common complaints appear to be its power. It might be really flashy/cool looking, but the damage is often unappealing to most.

Personally, I think that could be alleviated by raising up Reaver's damage, for example:

Chaser

Rank 1: 100% Scaled WPN ATK
Rank 2: 105% Scaled WPN ATK
Rank 3: 110% Scaled WPN ATK
Rank 4: 115% Scaled WPN ATK
Rank 5: 120% Scaled WPN ATK

Rising Tide

Rank 1: 100% Scaled WPN ATK
Rank 2: 110% Scaled WPN ATK
Rank 3: 120% Scaled WPN ATK
Rank 4: 130% Scaled WPN ATK
Rank 5: 140% Scaled WPN ATK

Elemental Rave

Probably the same way it is right now, it is capable of getting a 10% boost from Fire/Ice/Wind/Lightning ATK, but I rarely see this one in action so I'm unable to properly judge this skill.


Other than that, though, I don't see a huge problem with most of the opening's suggestions. Specially if they're halved when DH is not your main class. Nowadays, people only consider Demon Hunter for Skyburn + Cobra's 1M movement trick and nothing else. As a tank character too.
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Re: Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

Postby Slydria » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:07 am

Ehh, I think the idea of them getting 30 (or 40 Spirited) Hit, Crit or Evade just for flipping on a stance might be a little too much, even for a Main Class benefit.

I think it should just be kept at the halved amounts but without the current stipulations. (The Cobra one for instance sounds annoying when fighting other CEL builds.)

I'm iffy on Matador getting more damage reduction since Know No Pain exists. I think Critical Evade would be in line with the other proposals.


Other than that, I think some of the Demon Hunter Skills could use adjustments.

Reaver:
Slight increases to SWA for Chaser, Rising Tide and Elemental Rave.
Reducing Combination Fighter's damage reduction per stack from 25% to 15%.

Desperado:
Nitrogen Drop being changed from it's former Power scaling to WPN ATK based so it works with more guns. (110% + 10% per Rank; 150% at Rank 5, 160% Spirited for example.)

Wild Ride probably needs adjustments due to it being so rarely used but I don't see it enough to know what it should get... :/

Cobra:
Winged Serpent antics remain an issue, I think it should only be 0M after Leaping Lizard but 2M otherwise to make up for that limitation.

Matador:
Giving Crashing Bull some more scaling, either Rage or Dark ATK based.
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Re: Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

Postby Chaos » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:59 pm

The Damage Reduction effect suggested would be a much better fit on something like Wraithguard, given a few tweaks to the numbers.

That being said, I wouldn't mind the Stance skills getting benefits, particularly effects that are stronger if Demon Hunter is main class. Here's a rough draft of what I'd suggest to that end:

Reaver Stance
Main Class: +(Rank*3) Power
Sub Class: +(Rank) Power

Cobra Stance
Main Class: Movement becomes Teleport. Movement grants +(Rank*10) Evade for 1 Round.
Sub Class: Movement grants +10 Evade for 1 Round.

Desperado Stance
[NOTE: Bonuses only apply to one Gun weapon; Main Weapon slot takes priority)
Main Class: +(Rank) Rounds to Multi-Round guns, +(Rank*5) Hit/Critical to Single-Round guns
Sub Class: +1 Round to Multi-Round guns, +5 Hit/Critical to Single-Round guns

Matador Stance
Main Class: Gains Rage Energy equal to (20+Rank*10)% of damage taken, to a maximum of (200+Rank*100)
Sub Class: (Same as the current Matador Stance effect)
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
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Re: Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

Postby Snake » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:31 pm

I 'think' a better choice could be making their SWA usage raised by 6%, 7% and 8% per rank, starting at 100%. (Chaser/Rising Tide/Elemental Rave, respectively).
I never understood why a skill that links up the rest of the Reaver Combo should have the biggest damage, when Elemental Rave is something that can be reduced multiple times, resisted if done airborne and feed Voltiger. That's why I think it should have the highest scaling of them all.

I wouldn't mind these Stance bonuses being 15 instead of 30 either. A 30 could be if you are running Demon Hunter/Demon Hunter, maybe?

Reaver granting bonus power is boring in my opinion, not when most of their skills are going to be meeting head on with an enemy's Greenscale Tunic to sap twice as much FP/Evasion for -30% damage. I'd rather the stance grant them a fat bonus to hit, if only for Evasion purposes only. Or if the enemy is airborne.

Combination Fighter, as stated in the other thread running on about, could use what Slydria said, lesser damage reduction. Or maybe also an FP reduction too, along the lines. And about Wild Ride, it could also be affected by Combination Fighter, so it gets its momentum reduced too? Combination Fighter could also affect Descending Uroboros and Retaliate.
Or maybe all Demon Hunter offensive skills for the hell of it. More combos = more fun.

I kind of like Chaos's idea of Cobra changing movement to teleport, but I still believe the Evade should be passive while the stance is active, or maybe you only get an extra 15 Evade after performing a teleport. (assuming Cobra's granted Evade is 15 now, after Slydria's point) Also like Desperado Stance's idea too, but I would reduce that by half, or hard cap at two rounds, for multi-shot.

I don't like the idea of Matador getting more Rage Energy because it would just help people nuke physical attackers and cut their maximum HP by a large amount with Cursed Wounds for only being damaged. It would be a big chore if you've gone against a full tank build that can heal themselves and spam back most the damage you do back at them. Just giving a bonus to Critical Evade, as stated, might be enough.
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Re: Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

Postby Neus » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:06 am

I'm not really down with giving the stances more passive power. It's pretty boring and probably not necessary. I think the only real issue with Demon Hunter is the damage can be a little low, especially for a class that has been repeatedly nerfed defensively, with active skills that don't do much aside from damage anyway.

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Re: Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

Postby Spoops » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:44 am

I think I like Combination Fighter going from 25/50% damage cut to a 15/30% damage cut instead, also I think that it should reduce FP Costs for soldier and reaver skills by the same amount.

The rest of the damage can rely heavily on 2hand for the most part.


Desperado also has a few problems, mainly crit and damage, maybe Clay Pigeon could be a larger buff?

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Re: Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

Postby Lolzytripd » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:27 am

Desperado Suffers mostly because DH on its own lacks a knock down that leaves enough momentum to wild ride.

also....can lead storm just be a normal gun skill so we can use things mutated into guns with it (guns lack so much diversity we gotta make our own, especially if we aren't subclassing mg.)

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Re: Revive Donte 2018 [Demon Hunter thread 2.0]

Postby Snake » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:19 pm

Well. As long as they can dish out damage comparable to Boxers (Because boy, they needlessly eat FP, and a LOT of FP.), I'd be down. It's been more than an year that Demon Hunter's been under the rug now. I don't think people will complain if you unleash a bit of its major restraints, damage and combo-wise, especially now that Evasion is a thing.

What was OP in Demon Hunter was only two things, Matador and Cobra being absolute defenses, and as of now those are more than balanced due to the constant nerfs. So it would just be fair to increase the class's firepower by a large amount to compensate. I hate being fodder in PvE just because I lack AoEs or my Lead Storm lasts over 9 seconds for less damage than two nimble casts of a Crystal Rose for more damage.

Combination Fighter, as I've said, should also work with all offensive Demon Hunter skills (or at least with its long range brother, Desperado), for more combos.
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