Sigrogana Z

"VAs are too strong!" "Evokers are too weak!" "Nerf Kinu!"
A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
User avatar
Trexmaster
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:48 pm
Location: A dungeon.

Sigrogana Z

Postby Trexmaster » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:39 pm

Martial artist has been one of the best classes in the game for a very long time now. Its focus is a mystery: as it does practically everything.

Meditate provides it with infinite sustain ever since it was changed to cost no FP, restoring FP for a 6m dump whilst also topping off their buffs to compensate for 'wasting' their turn to heal.

Shukuchi and Cleanse Body give them all the mobility they could ever ask for, making it nearly impossible to catch or escape them bar straight bursting them down or tossing on Frozen (a very recently added status). Aside from just being an MA yourself.

Its innates vary from buffing their dodge significantly (especially vs bows, one of the few checks to their massive kiting potential) to boosting their hit with the weapon they prefer to use. Not to mention Kip Up, which even still is reason alone to pick up MA, preventing momentum loss is a huge boon.

As to how to fix MA and bring it in line?

1. Kip Up should eat the long awaited Main Class treatment. This will make people have to choose between one of the most potent MA innates or whatever they were main classing before, if it was anything good (*cough* duelist *cough*)

2. Meditate should have a longer cooldown than it currently does (1 whole round afterwards) and cost 7 momentum, not 6. This will prevent the cheese of Shukuchi > Meditate to store the 1m buff to fly into someone's face with 4m instead of 3.

3. Shukuchi should be spent after moving or using a skill that combos with it (or give it the band-aid treatment of a cooldown like everything else...). This will make things like Shukuchi > Move > HK not have the range of the entire map.

4. Cleanse Body should have a cooldown. Yes, band-aids, but this is so it'd actually be possible to stick an Immobilize on a Martial Artist. Maybe have it grant a round of immunity (to Immobilize, at least) afterwards with a 3-4~ round cooldown so they get a grace period, but they can't just cheese every single attempt to impede their movement aside from Frozen.

5. Protection from Arrows could afford to have its numbers docked to say, 5-6 evade per rank instead of its present 8. While Ranger exists now, do they really need such a heavy bonus against something they -already- innately hard counter by their nature of diving into close range so easily?

And this isn't even getting into their Promoted classes, which I'll save for another, possibly future thread.

If anyone disagrees or has better ideas/wants to +1 me, pls post.

User avatar
Spoops
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2207
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:25 am
Location: Somewhere

Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Spoops » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:01 pm

Everything I have to agree with in this thread, except maybe protection from arrows, as I pointed out in another thread I think that it should be critical evade vs bows and not evade, Martial artists already have a powerful INNATE evade buff, not many classes other than Kensei and Ranger even get innate evade buffs, which are both promo classes and don't have a DR granting innate in the same skill tree (Weathered Body)

User avatar
Rendar
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 1720
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:39 pm
Location: Fantasy Land

Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Rendar » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:14 pm

3 just needs to have the same effect as Charge. If you charge > move, you don't get to keep the benefit of charge for some move-based attack. That or nerf Heaven Kick to not use your friggin movement and have a set range for it, but I digress.

5. Yes. Please. Unarmored already has the highest evade in the game. Paired with MA to make it bigger.. and then the other shit to make it even BIGGER... it's insane.

1. Kip up needs to get it's shit kicked in, and has for ages. Everything that has been done to it has done nothing but alleviate the issue of heavier people using it. It's entire mechanic is flawed to the core.
Galeon Zviera's turn.
Critical Hit! Galeon Zviera attacks Jammer with Floating Red Letter and hits them!
Jammer takes 8420 Pierce damage.

Tiny Fawn Girl recovered 8550 HP.
Isabelline recovered 8550 HP.


Image

User avatar
Sokuryoku
Novice Member
Novice Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:03 pm

Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Sokuryoku » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:36 pm

As a Ma main. I am ok with all of this, not that bad of a hit and cleanse body I do agree with the most. Mainly because it's a instant shutdown to hexers for poison, but I'd like some reactions to these nerfs on other classes that fought with this. Example Hexer.
Image

User avatar
Fern
Social Poster
Social Poster
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:46 pm
Location: Venezuela
Contact:

Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Fern » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:45 pm

Many of the proposed changes sound fine. To my understanding, Dev plans on tweaking Hexer sometime in the long-run anyway. I do think Kip Up should be main class, -at the very least-.
Image

User avatar
Sokuryoku
Novice Member
Novice Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:03 pm

Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Sokuryoku » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:11 am

In the name of god touch hexer before anything else. That is all.
Image

User avatar
Fern
Social Poster
Social Poster
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:46 pm
Location: Venezuela
Contact:

Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Fern » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:16 am

The context is that he just faced the wrath of a Hexer group. Teehee.

Anyway-- now that I think about it a bit more, I think Cleanse Body's cooldown should be 3 rounds instead of 4. I don't think anything else removes Immobilize besides Negotiate, and the latter requires setup. Well... anything noticeable, anyway. Heaven Kick's main appeal seems to be smacking people from large distances, so I think having Shukuchi wear off after using something compatible with it works fine.
Image

User avatar
Spoops
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2207
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:25 am
Location: Somewhere

Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Spoops » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:02 am

Martial artist is arguably a bit more important than hexer due to it covering 3 promo classes, Hexer is bad but it can't do literally everything better than anyone, like a Monk can.

User avatar
Ranylyn
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:46 am
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada

Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Ranylyn » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:48 pm

My biggest concern is the Meditate change to 7m; it'd make the skill unuseable to lower levels without Tactician yet. It'd be better to make it so Meditate has to be the first action of the turn and consumes all remaining momentum, regardless of if it's 6 or 12. (This would also prevent Duelist/MA riposte crits into using something before meditate, which I've seen people complain about.)

While I do feel the arguments made are overstated (Meditate's HP and FP heals are actually kind of bad, as an example,) the proposed changes seem reasonable.
*loud burp*

User avatar
Snake
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2152
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: O.W.L.S Underground Motherbase - Main Office

Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Snake » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:32 pm

But Hexer nerfs never.

+1
Image
Image ~ Dev, 08/16/2016.


Return to “Balance Fu”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest