Sigrogana Z

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A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
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Raigen.Convict
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Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Raigen.Convict » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:21 pm

Though I've never properly played Martial Artist, I can agree with these changes, definitely.
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Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Trexmaster » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:19 am

Ranylyn wrote:My biggest concern is the Meditate change to 7m; it'd make the skill unuseable to lower levels without Tactician yet. It'd be better to make it so Meditate has to be the first action of the turn and consumes all remaining momentum, regardless of if it's 6 or 12. (This would also prevent Duelist/MA riposte crits into using something before meditate, which I've seen people complain about.)

While I do feel the arguments made are overstated (Meditate's HP and FP heals are actually kind of bad, as an example,) the proposed changes seem reasonable.


This might be an issue to lower levels, yes, but at this point in the game Dev should really just make the +1 Momentum something everyone gets innately due to how hard the game has been balanced around it (and it's been discussed this was the plan when trait reworks roll out anyway).

I would agree to it being 'use all momentum' like Sheathe Sword, but this still presents the issue of a 1m buff + Meditate. The 15 SKI needed to get the +1M does not take long to get at all, most characters should have this at level 10 or even lower.

Thus I feel it should just be a 7m+ skill (7m or consumes all), you can't really balance around preventing gimmicks with greater than 7M (looking at you dullahans) so this will have to do.

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Anyway-- now that I think about it a bit more, I think Cleanse Body's cooldown should be 3 rounds instead of 4. I don't think anything else removes Immobilize besides Negotiate, and the latter requires setup. Well... anything noticeable, anyway. Heaven Kick's main appeal seems to be smacking people from large distances, so I think having Shukuchi wear off after using something compatible with it works fine.


Yep, Cleanse Body is the game's only immob cure aside from Slither Mastery (which requires you to main class summoner -and- install Phase Python), and due to Immobilize not having a level higher than like, two or three, ever, then you'd need to dump WIL entirely to even have a chance at failing to purge it.

What I suggested was a temp immunity to the status, thus justifying the longer CD, but if it gets no such immunity it could afford to be 3 CD instead.

Just for the record, Cleanse Body was nerfed already, requiring WIL/2 = status level to purge the appropriate status. As it stands, this only effects poison, as Immobilize, Blind, Slow (Celsius, cripple leg, fenrir, etc), and Fear never have levels that surpass Poison due to them having no effect at all or having level 30+ be far too overpowering (-30 MOV anyone?). So it will more often than not always purge those statuses without issue, and this is a base class ability. Such a powerful cleanse deserves a lengthy cooldown, and the temp immunity to alleviate getting status spammed immediately after dropping it.

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Ranylyn
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Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Ranylyn » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:09 pm

Something else I considered was having Meditate act like Power Up; making it a turn-ender that benefits from being used first.

3M = 50% Ski
4M = 100%
5M = 150%
6M = 200%
7M = 250%

etc etc.

This would, in essence, make it not worth using later in the turn, while not making it unusable by people suffering from fevers, over-encumbered, etc should they desperately need it. While this doesn't directly address the Shukuchi issue, it does indirectly add an incentive to not do that.
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Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Spoops » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Wouldn't that also make Meditate a 400% SKI heal for dullahans with soul rage active, or 550% if they triggered Geist Schritt before hand?

For anyone else it could still wind up out of control, with aforementioned Geist Schritt and slow critposte from Duelists.

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Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Chaos » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:23 pm

Trexmaster wrote:I would agree to it being 'use all momentum' like Sheathe Sword, but this still presents the issue of a 1m buff + Meditate.

Or we can just make Meditate consume Shukuchi. Simple, clean and doesn't lock anyone out of Meditate for even the SLIGHTEST lack of momentum. That, and Meditate's heal is nowhere near big enough to demand such a strict momentum cost.

I also think slapping on a 3-4 round cooldown on Cleanse Body is a bad idea. Yes, it fights off Immobilize, which is a killer to Martial Artist and a host of other classes. I think a higher (or percentage) FP cost will do better, allowing an MA to still fight off Immobilize, but dissuading them from spamming it endlessly.

I agree with all other changes. I'd also suggest limiting MA's inate evade to +2~3 evade per rank.
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Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Snake » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:29 pm

Making it consume 10% of your maximum FP per status effect healed could be a start. And still have nothing against what was proposed in the OP, aside the cooldown. If anything, a 2 round cooldown could be enough just to give a 1 turn window for crowd controls aimed at them.
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Re: Sigrogana Z

Postby Trexmaster » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:23 pm

Fair points, though other 1m buffs are still an issue, but not as prevalent due to Shukuchi being built into the class unlike all the other things you can stack with Meditate (Charge, Mass, Longdraw).

I'd go with Kunai's suggestion, but not make it something insane like a percentage cost. Just make it a static FP cost for purging the effects. (like 20-rank*2 fp per effect or just a static 10...)


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