Nihilist

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Grandpa
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Nihilist

Postby Grandpa » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:07 am

This item sees little to no use these days.

Resists are very, very common but absorbing elements is not.

Why don't we add resists to something this bypasses, unless it's skill-based or race-based (IE, it only bypasses item resists)?

That'd be neat.

Or maybe an advanced version made with alchemy that does so. Could even bump up the advanced version to a 10* rather than the 9* it currently is. (It doesn't even seem worthy of being a 9* as is, though.)
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Re: Nihilist

Postby Trexmaster » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:58 am

Nihilist has its niche purpose of negating other niche items that otherwise completely nullify a damage type that some character entirely rely on for the majority of their DPS.

Circle ring only half counts since any Ice reliant character is probably a Verglas and will Winter's Bite that absorb off.

Ignoring all resists would be nuts, maybe less so if it only bypassed item resists, but only a handful of races get fire resist to begin with (Hyattr to the highest degree (up to 50-60% due to scaling racials) , Mechanations and Phenex with a static 15%, and that's it.) Just Youkai install traits, LB skills, and the appropriately attuned Enchant Shield grant fire resist from skills.

Most times when people resist fire it's from items, so letting Nihilist ignore all of those would make it WAY more potent than it presently is. As it stands it's already an almost required item for fire mages due to bypassing one of the hardest counters in the game to their existence. Not to mention that anyone can carry around a pocket Red Letter to swap on to doom fire mages without a Nihilist.

And then you get to every *other* resist in the game being nullified, too. Some resists don't even exist on anything but items (Looking at you, Lightning), so I can't see this being balanced very easily. Maybe if it just reduced resists on the user and enemies by a certain number, or something like that, instead of total negation (and it can't drop below 0 because duh, though then you get into the issue of it possibly nullifying weaknesses...).

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Re: Nihilist

Postby Neus » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:19 am

This is more of a balance fu topic but I'll just go ahead and say that I don't think the item needs to be negating resists.

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Re: Nihilist

Postby Spoops » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:14 pm

Moving this over to Balance Fu wouldn't be a bad option considering the points already made, I could see an additional effect being that it ignores immunities too, installing chun/haku/hatsu against specific builds is quite effective in its own right.

ignoring resists would be far too strong I agree, but maybe I could see it ignoring the momentum cut of hitting a RESIST! message.

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Re: Nihilist

Postby Grandpa » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:24 pm

Spoops wrote:ignoring resists would be far too strong I agree, but maybe I could see it ignoring the momentum cut of hitting a RESIST! message.


This would be good, yeah. The problem is that it's easy to just cut mages off from doing very much of anything if you just stack resists.

Sorry, I couldn't figure out if this was a suggestion or balance fu.
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Re: Nihilist

Postby Slydria » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:15 pm

Moved it over to Balance Fu.
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Re: Nihilist

Postby Chaos » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:36 pm

Nihilist basically exists to nullify any Immunity/Absorb advantage, which players can only get with extreme downsides to begin with. Giving it the ability to nullify any degree of Resistances would be completely overpowered; such a feat should be on its own specific item (with proper drawbacks), or be applied via a Skill, as Overcharged Null Shell/Winter's Bite currently work.

Honestly, Nihilist doesn't even need a buff, as being able to bypass elemental shutdowns is big on its own. I'd sooner move to lessen the consequences on the Absorb items.
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Re: Nihilist

Postby Snake » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:51 am

I'd go with Spoops here, make it ignore any Momentum penalty on triggering Resist! proc.

Ignoring Elemental Resistance would outright mean that you're bypassing their damage reduction, and the one above is not. It just won't make fighting someone with resistances up their buttcheeks so annoying, for non-Duelists.
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