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Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:20 pm
by Spoops
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Fray and refraction can get pretty ridiculous due to how many it spews out at once, not only causing problems mechanically by rolling over to people's turns while fray is going off still, but also adding up a lot of damage due to the amount of frayed voidgates that can be up at once on a really tanky build, as I had originally thought.


Something needs to be pre-emptively done about stuff like this, either by completely cutting off fray from entering voidgates or by reducing the damage of refracted projectiles until a maximum of 75% damage cut or something.

Re: Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:37 pm
by Neus
More details?

Re: Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:04 am
by Ryuzaki
It's possible to do over 1200 damage as a VA/ST(or priest) just by lining up your voidgates right and firing needle into it. This can also stack a level 1000 needle and allows 2000 HP heals.

Fair and balanced, as evident. The new voidgate effect with projectiles is cool and all, but all it takes to basically one shot an opponent is some crafty placements.

On top of that, the animations take -forever-, even if you just line up a frayed gate with a few others. Dark resisting mobs are taking between 3 and 600 darkness damage from frayed gate alignment, which throws PvE out of whack.

That's JUST the PvE implications, in PvP you can rock the massive damage gates with Vanishing strike/swap position. Which is cool and all, but the sheer amount of damage you can crank out with these moves, and a projectile is absolutely insane.

Re: Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:09 am
by Spoops
After fraying a voidgate the frayed voidgate shoots out more frayed projectiles every round, lining up voidgates right allows you to generate anywhere from 4 to up to 100 frayed projectiles every round, on top of that fraying a voidgate with refile voidgate ends up costing 1m to do thanks to how teleporting to voidgates works, in essence its pretty bad, unless you're packing heavy dark resist it is very much possible you'll lose to this each time, or have insane coverage in a team fight at the very least.

Its the sheer number of projectiles thats the issue here, maybe actually a projectile limit is needed, instead of a damage cut.

Re: Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:10 am
by K Peculier
I think what spoops suggested with fray shenanigans is right. Fray projectiles should honestly be exempt completely because of how easy it is to fire off every round.

However, the voidgate effect takes set up to complete, as much as an evoker takes a Charge Mind round into an invocation. If you let someone set up void gates around you and you think its a good idea to stand in the path of one, you deserve all the damage you get.

Re: Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:14 am
by Ryuzaki
That doesn't prevent vanishing strike into voidgate though, which in essence means you have to kite VAs right now. Which isn't good for characters designed to rush opponents and tank against them. Vanishing strike has some beefy ass range, and since it teleports the victim to your previous spot, set up a box of gates and vanishing strike them into it and hop in a voidgate. Hey, look they're taking all that fray damage again.

Re: Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:07 am
by Noxid
How about this? Each extra projectile that comes out of a voidgate causes that voidgate's duration to be reduced by 1?(voidgates have a duration of 5 at max rank. 6 if there is a spirit for it) This would mean you could setup lots of gates to fire into each-other but once the damage has been done the gates will be gone and you wont be able to simply do it again next turn. So if a VA started fraying too early the gates would be used up but if they wait too long then the gates will only have a couple of shots in them. It should also cut down on the amount of gates too solving the long animation problem.

Also I'd like to say this is not OP in PvE at all considering the amount of setup it requires you'd be better off just playing duelist and just one shotting enemies with basic attacks or just lol earth mage.

Re: Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 9:44 am
by Neus
Maybe the Fray projectile just shouldn't be compatible with Refraction.

Re: Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:55 pm
by Lolzytripd
It does big damage, but the set up time is big.


Just make it so that ally's gates aren't on the same "network" as your own so a party can't set up a cheese in 1-2 rounds.

1200 damage is a big number, but chargemind, excel, death knighting, sidecut, ect can do the same.

the only issue is that cloned projectiles can be cloned again, make it so that projectiles generated from refraction cannot be refracted.

Re: Frayckin Ridiculous

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:43 pm
by Spoops
Lolzytripd wrote:It does big damage, but the set up time is big.


Just make it so that ally's gates aren't on the same "network" as your own so a party can't set up a cheese in 1-2 rounds.

1200 damage is a big number, but chargemind, excel, death knighting, sidecut, ect can do the same.

the only issue is that cloned projectiles can be cloned again, make it so that projectiles generated from refraction cannot be refracted.

No charge minded projectiles can actually be refracted, the only one that comes close is wind slasher but it doesn't work either.

I think disallowing fray to work with refraction might be the most wise option as Dev posted.