Strength, Crits and Weapons

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JoseJoseRSD
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Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by JoseJoseRSD » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:18 am

So, I have encountered problems with the meta nowadays.

1. Strength is underpowered

No, Strength is just a stat that can be dumped in favor of stats that give more, people that focus on Strength, aka 200 SWA DH, do not find Strength underpowered, the problem is mainly the fact that people with Strength, have to invest in things like SKI and LUC, DEF, VIT and RES, to still do their thing, so just make strength as useful.

How? it is actually pretty simple, make BW a meaningful mechanic, that is it.

2. Axes being crit-based

Well, crit-based axes are a ok concept, they are supposed to be a unreliable, Axes are quite great against both armor and unarmored people, because of the cutting edge and center of mass, so it would make sense, Axes have a talent to deal more critical damage and crit chance, but it is not enough comparing to people with 60GUI(They happen lol).

The problem is, there is this thing, called "not enough stats for crit", crits are supposed to be either precise attacks or BRUTE attacks, then why STR gives no crit damage? people has been arguing that STR and crit sucks, so why not give STR crit damage?

Critical chance is found in two stats, so why would it be different in critical damage? and saying that people will stop building GUI for this change has no idea neither, GUI gives flanking, crit damage and skill slots, that is actually more useful than STR for most Kensei or VA builds.

"BUT NOOO I WANT TO BE THE ONLY CRIT BUILD IN THE GAME, I GOT WAYS TO GO AROUND STR, BUT STR BUILDS SHOULD NOT HAVE A WAY TO GO AROUND GUI REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

Seriously, both builds will have a buff if STR gets crit damage, the only difference is that STR builds now will have the capacity to get meaningful
basic attacks.

3. We need hammers

Polearm strength based weapons with high power and ignore phys DR (Not all) , there are not enough antitankiness options (Rampaging is one of too many enchants) there are handguns, but not for melees, the options of antitankiness right now are way too low, but the only options that we have, are just extremely OP, like that Arbalest skills, so, there should be more options, soldiers classes have no way to go around DEF stacking and they are the most STR focused classes in the game, they are supposed to be the one most physically powerful, what skill in DH, BK or Tactician go through deffenses? (No gimmicky shit)

All this would be a overall buff to strength, but in my opinion, crit damage does not affect auto hit builds (DH) and hammers without crits does not affect basic attack builds (BK, which is tanky but has preference over basic attacks), the BW being more meaningful is complex, but a thread to make BW more meaningful has been made already.

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Re: Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by Sawrock » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:52 am

Strength giving crit damage would be wonderful, with the prospect that Crit Damage only uses the higher of the two (so that they don’t stack).

EDIT: Or, better yet, include a hardcap of 100% total bonus crit damage (invluding weapons, stats, etc), similar to how Physical and Magical Defense should hardcap at 80% reduction.
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Re: Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by JoseJoseRSD » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:13 am

Sawrock wrote:Strength giving crit damage would be wonderful, with the prospect that Crit Damage only uses the higher of the two (so that they don’t stack).

EDIT: Or, better yet, include a hardcap of 100% total bonus crit damage (invluding weapons, stats, etc), similar to how Physical and Magical Defense should hardcap at 80% reduction.
Yeah, I based the idea around a Wiki article about Criticals, it said that critical attacks are either very precise attacks on weak spots or BRUTAL attacks, so why GUI, SKI and LUC get the only critical stuff, while STR, the BRUTAL stat, have nothing to show off such thing?

Even gameplay wise it would make sense, a lot of STR based weapons (mainly Axes) would love to get the critical damage without having to spend GUI, because as stated, building STR with critical builds is simply a waste, because people would rather pick a dagger that scales with GUI and ignore STR, this will give STR based crit builds a reason to exist actually.

EDIT: Also, I agree that a hard cap of total bonsu crit damage should be made to balance this out, imagine someone with 60STR and GUI, wearing axes to get even more critical damage, that is just ridiculous.

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Re: Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by Lolzytripd » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:39 am

Honestly I feel like crit damage should have been left alone in the great reckoning and guile should have been the stat for bypassing defenses.

but its too late for that and I would love to see some love for pure str based glass cannons in a world where the norm is all about bulking up pretty much every other stat for super survivable walls.

I'm okay with this suggestion but my only counter suggestion would be giving strength some kind of "ignores .5% of enemy phys def per point"

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Re: Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by JoseJoseRSD » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:06 am

Lolzytripd wrote:Honestly I feel like crit damage should have been left alone in the great reckoning and guile should have been the stat for bypassing defenses.
Eh, the things is, how being more, "pesky" makes you bypass strength?


Lolzytripd wrote: but its too late for that and I would love to see some love for pure str based glass cannons in a world where the norm is all about bulking up pretty much every other stat for super survivable walls.

I'm okay with this suggestion but my only counter suggestion would be giving strength some kind of "ignores .5% of enemy phys def per point"
No matter how strong a person is, they can not simply punch through metal anyway, so logically, it does not make sense.

Gameplay wise, STR should have ways to go around deffense, but the norm being "No matter what, I am antitanky" is just as bad, people should be antitanky if they want to go for it, thats WHY I SUGGESTED HAMMERS, WEAPONS THAT ARE NOT PRESENT, BUT WOULD MAKE GOOD POLEARMS WITH GREAT POWER THAT SHOULD IGNORE PHYSICAL DEFFENSE, SO WE HAVE MORE OPTIONS SPREAD ACROSS THE BOARD, INSTEAD OF FEW OPTIONS BUT EXTREMELY OPPRESSIVE ONES WITH NO COUNTER and they should be mainly STR based, so I do not see any flaw.

But if everyone is as antitanky, there would be no point in being tanky in the first place.

So, Basic attack based STR builds are already here and they dont do bad, remember DH Reaver is not a meme, the point is to make STR also viable for crit builds, because is way too easy to dump, STR crit builds relies in a lot of stats and there is no way to deal good basic attacks without critical hits.

Axes in general should be good against both squishy and tanky chars, but they should be unreliable to keep their premise of high rish and high reward.

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Re: Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by Lolzytripd » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:03 am

It's more that the game lacks in anti armor niches, we have buster cannon....

also you are severely over reacting, I'm not suggest a 1:1 str vs defense cancel out, Its at the very least 2 points of str to 1 def, I would also argue this only affect basic attacks, not autohits.


In regards to guile, being pesky would be attacking the weak points of armor.

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Re: Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by Sawrock » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:14 am

Giving strength a direct counter to defense just devalues defense.
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Re: Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by Aqua » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:02 pm

Lolzytripd wrote:It's more that the game lacks in anti armor niches, we have buster cannon....

also you are severely over reacting, I'm not suggest a 1:1 str vs defense cancel out, Its at the very least 2 points of str to 1 def, I would also argue this only affect basic attacks, not autohits.


In regards to guile, being pesky would be attacking the weak points of armor.
I can agree with this comment for the simple matter of it only affects basic attacks more than it does Autohits, yes strength gets the lack of love but heck its still used when it comes to fire mages adding Crits to STR id say was a little much, I mean heck why would you want to add crit to it if it does more damage to you as a character. Your overacting over a small Stat to be honest.

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Re: Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by Akame » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:20 pm

I usually don't post on balance threads, but STR is a bit underwhelming. I wouldn't mind seeing crit damage being added to STR. Like, 0.25-0.5%+ Crit Damage per 1 STR or something.
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Re: Strength, Crits and Weapons

Post by JoseJoseRSD » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:22 pm

Sawrock wrote:Giving strength a direct counter to defense just devalues defense.
Yeah, that is why I am suggesting hammer weapons that ignore phys DR, not all, but give a option to STR based build to go through deffense stackers without having to invest too much.

Also, what I want is STR to get Crit damage, EVERYONE, LOOK AT THIS

Critical Hits are, for short, well-aimed strikes that hit the enemy's soft or unguarded spots (often comes from Daggers, in this case), but sometimes it might just be an overly strong and brutal attack (often comes from Axes, in this case).


But there are no stat for that "overly strong and brutal attack", Why not fix it by giving critical damage to STR? GUI should not be the only option, Axe/Crit based builds will get the buff, while Reaver auto hit based attacks will not get stronger than they already are.

Because as of right now, people who wants to crit gets a dagger and dumps STR, why people who wants to crit, but also use an axe, dont get to pick an axe and dump GUI? how would that be unfair?

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