Beaten down, and can't get up again.

"VAs are too strong!" "Evokers are too weak!" "Nerf Kinu!"
A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
Yark
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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by Yark » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:11 pm

My advice is to prepare for the enemy team having a healer, and consider ways to shut him down. We've not been playing this game for long, and there was a bit of a learning curve. We have been beaten by Isenshi, we have been beaten by Sonic Shell, and we have been beaten by Tarnada crits. But instead of complaining about these things on the forums, we made adjustments to mitigate the risks involved with encountering them again.

Speaking from experience, your time is better spent theory-crafting than complaining.

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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by WaifuApple » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:48 pm

Yeah, we should really wait for Dev. As a note, however, keep in mind that revival and healing are not the only things in the arsenal of a healer. They can also deal quite a bit of damage, too, without really sacrificing their healing and revival capabilities all that much. Someone who can go good damage, tank damage, too, and heal and revive themselves and allies...

...and you really can't see why it would be considered OP?
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Yark
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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by Yark » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:56 pm

Pulling Shot was nerfed because it was a free knockdown, and there was no way to prevent it. Against healers, one can inflict interference on their intended targets, or silence the healers themselves.

So no, it's not really overpowered. Pick up a healer for your own group if you want a better understanding of how to deal with one.

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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by Spoops » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:50 pm

If you really do think that it is not currently in a fundamentally broken state, even though you basically said that yourself Yark, then feel free to, I'll wait on Dev's response, he usually can come up with a better answer in these situations.


Team fights should not surmount to rock paper scissor style team comps for 1 particular member of a group and metagaming, thats my piece on it at least, RP is first and foremost for me.

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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by Nerserus » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:31 am

Interference is a status that completely negates healing whilst it is up - it's very powerful; damn near a necessity in PvP on at least one of your four people (Kind of like needing a knock up or earth damage to fight grindylows in PvE though I'm sure that's completely different am I right guys?)

It's not a case of rock paper scissors. It's a case of spending five of your thirty five points into a skill that gives you access to interference, and then using it. Now I know; that can be difficult, especially since you want to be Demon Hunter, you want to be Kensei, and anything that's not those two things is really inconvenient for some reason - but it's there, it's an option, you can do it - you should do it!

Whether it's black static, or if it's interference shell; you can totally stop any healing, and if you're a hexer you can make it incurable too. If anything this is advocating you guys go back and retune your builds (Something absolutely mandatory for us as a group believe it or not) so that you're ready for us.

And if you can't manage to do that?

Why are you PvPing at all. We want to win just like you want to win. Counter our stuff - you don't play a game of chess and demand the pieces change because you don't want to change your tactics.

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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by Spoops » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:47 am

RP Should be first and foremost, but that doesn't stop tactics from rising up and being better than any other, thats meta and it always happens, balance is a constant effort.

Again I re-iterate, this doesn't directly nerf healing, it instead combats how easy it is to recover from death currently, we all know how good PR His and healers are, and where they rest in the game, we've been playing the game far longer than your group has to know that.

The points in your post would be fine and dandy if this wasn't an RP game, I guess that occurs as a second thought to the Ephemeral group though.

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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by Yark » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:09 am

Spoops wrote:The points in your post would be fine and dandy if this wasn't an RP game, I guess that occurs as a second thought to the Ephemeral group though.
Guess you haven't stopped by to read our thread in the Factions section.

Anyway, we've never had trouble dispatching enemy teams with dedicated healers. Feel free to PM me for advice, as I don't want to give away all my secrets publicly.

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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by Nerserus » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:21 am

Spoops wrote:RP Should be first and foremost,
What does that have to do with balancing combat? Roleplay is roleplay, fights in-game are decided by variables - that's what we're debating.
Spoops wrote:but that doesn't stop tactics from rising up and being better than any other, thats meta and it always happens, balance is a constant effort.
But this is flawed logic - if our tactics were truly better than yours, we'd win every time - that's evidently not the case, we go 50/50 usually, beat one group lose to the other. And our tactics are seldom replicated by anyone but us. You can't say it's a "Meta" because it's what your enemies do - that's ridiculous, and reeks of biasness.

I have to change my Hyattr's build because everyone has too much mobility, don't see me complaining that the game should change until I can use that same build in PvP. You can say "But RP" if you like, to which I reply; "But a jail cell." I get good or I get jailed. Maybe if you risked anything at all I might sympathize with that argument
Spoops wrote:Again I re-iterate, this doesn't directly nerf healing, it instead combats how easy it is to recover from death currently, we all know how good PR His and healers are, and where they rest in the game, we've been playing the game far longer than your group has to know that.
First of all - I've been playing since the days stats were based on growths; and you could choose exactly three metals other than iron for your weapons - magmic, galdric or arctic. In other words, when the game came out, if we're going to do a pointless measuring contest like that.

I only recently got on the forums, since I haven't had any problems until recently and spent most of my time in-game, but please put your elitism somewhere else - your viewpoints aren't any more valid due to the amount of time you played, even though you technically played less than I have. If you have a point - you have a point, if you don't, you don't. That's how it works.
Spoops wrote:The points in your post would be fine and dandy if this wasn't an RP game, I guess that occurs as a second thought to the Ephemeral group though.
No, the fact this is an RP game changes literally none of my points as we're talking purely about combat. And just because you tack on a passive aggressive comment at the end, doesn't change the fact you've contested none of my points. You can't just do this whole bleeding heart spiel where you're the "TRUE" rpers, and we're just a band of second class roleplayers who are somehow inferior and unable to dispute your opinions, because let me tell you something brotha - we're just as equal as you as players, both in opinion and in deserving a place in the game whether you like that or not.
Last edited by Nerserus on Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by Spoops » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:30 am

And yet the rest of you have no issue getting personal as well, I throw one comment and it sparks the whole thread, but the subject has been brought up several times in the thread, I haven't once told you folk to leave and never come back, and I have many thoughts that I'd rather keep reserved, but I don't share most of them on the public forums, save me the shpeal.

I've already expressed and combatted many of the points brought up in the thread, I'm simply waiting for another solution to pop up, though I still stand by than an abuse-able strategy should be stomped out at the heel of the problem.

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Re: Beaten down, and can't get up again.

Post by Yark » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:36 am

Spoops wrote:I've already expressed and combatted many of the points brought up in the thread, I'm simply waiting for another solution to pop up, though I still stand by than an abuse-able strategy should be stomped out at the heel of the problem.
There are a dozen strategies I can think of, off the top of my head, that you might say are abuse. (We are a very creative bunch, after all.) And I can sympathize with role-play being your first priority, and will not attempt to fault you for it. You've got your dark-themed, armor-clad warrior guy, and that's a pretty cool concept! However, you cannot expect to do well against everyone you come across. With that in mind, you can either choose to avoid confrontation with folks like us, or you can keep picking fights and complaining about the results.

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