Kadwhoaha

"VAs are too strong!" "Evokers are too weak!" "Nerf Kinu!"
A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
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Grandpa
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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by Grandpa » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:25 am

I largely agree with the idea that Kadouha didn't need that extra Ki Awoken buff. Kadouha turrets are just unnecessary and make no sense. I think just removing that entirely would be the best idea, really.
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EenKogNeeto
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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by EenKogNeeto » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:28 pm

I have a character that peaks at like 120 Light ATK for other reasons and generally has very huge Kadouhas

I would like to draw attention to Solar Flare, it's a skill that targets the entire map and does damage...But what's important is that it has a fixed cost of 15 Ki even while in Ki Awoken.

Kadouha without Ki is very lackluster, Kadouha with Ki is very strong

Maybe make it only consume half of the Ki but still gain the full effect, so that you don't go from 100% to 0 in one attack, but also still have some cost associated with it?

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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by Spoops » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:34 pm

You can probably deal really huge amounts of damage even without Ki with Kadouha, keeping in mind its one of the highest scaling skills in game, if not THE highest, 140% Light ATK and 140% SWA, I think the ki awoken interaction where you keep your ki is simply too strong currently, it will be fine if it spends Ki since that is a very large price you have to pay for such a large attack.

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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by Senna » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:40 am

Eh, suppose I'll throw my opinion with this even if I don't exactly use it like that (Funny because even tho I can use it like a turret, I ain't that aids). It doesn't exactly need a CD but there is one thing you need to keep into consideration when handling this: Ki consumption. Unlike the others, I do believe in good Ki usage; having Ki gives you alot of bonus and the fact you can't exactly power up for a set amount of turns. (No-one in their right mind would keep Ki awoken on for 2-3 whole turns unless they're spamming the meme). HONESTLY! If removing that feature is an option, my suggestion is to add Kadha to the suppress list. For I and a few others only us Ki awoken just to use it once without zeroing the Ki meter (Rather it knocks down or not).

So, the suggestion to this: If it needs to be removed the KI AWOKEN bonus, add it to the Ki suppression list; it'd give a few people reasons to get that passive and it'd allow people to use the meme without using their build up Ki IF the Ki awoken bonus is removed.

Suggestion two: Half or change the drain with Ki awoken is on. Like 15-20, so people can't exactly spam the 30ki blast knockdown.

Senna's regard: Yeah, I kinda do understand where ya'll coming from with this, since I fought someone that spams that shit; Ki awoken + Kadha, against me. If you lack mobility, you can't counter it. LUCKILY! I was on my Monk so I kinda just Kite them out with the help of Shunpo & BOI, and let Ki awoken run its course on them. But I can picture a lot of other classes/builds getting raped by this easily due to the massive damage output. (200-300 damage a shoot with a 30 ki blast is really aids). My suggestion isn't to save them but to save the others who doesn't spam that shit like that. So the good doesn't suffer too much with the bad.

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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by Aqua » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:31 am

As a person who uses this skill alot I say go ahead and remove the Ki awoken bonus it receives for pretty much several of the reasons stated above.

As for the adding it to the Ki suppression list i don't think it would really change since it just reacts the same way as not having any Ki built up in the first place. The Ki suppression skill pretty much prevents it from causing knockdown iirc.
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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by Spoops » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:22 am

Senna wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:40 am
Eh, suppose I'll throw my opinion with this even if I don't exactly use it like that (Funny because even tho I can use it like a turret, I ain't that aids). It doesn't exactly need a CD but there is one thing you need to keep into consideration when handling this: Ki consumption. Unlike the others, I do believe in good Ki usage; having Ki gives you alot of bonus and the fact you can't exactly power up for a set amount of turns. (No-one in their right mind would keep Ki awoken on for 2-3 whole turns unless they're spamming the meme). HONESTLY! If removing that feature is an option, my suggestion is to add Kadha to the suppress list. For I and a few others only us Ki awoken just to use it once without zeroing the Ki meter (Rather it knocks down or not).

So, the suggestion to this: If it needs to be removed the KI AWOKEN bonus, add it to the Ki suppression list; it'd give a few people reasons to get that passive and it'd allow people to use the meme without using their build up Ki IF the Ki awoken bonus is removed.

Suggestion two: Half or change the drain with Ki awoken is on. Like 15-20, so people can't exactly spam the 30ki blast knockdown.

Senna's regard: Yeah, I kinda do understand where ya'll coming from with this, since I fought someone that spams that shit; Ki awoken + Kadha, against me. If you lack mobility, you can't counter it. LUCKILY! I was on my Monk so I kinda just Kite them out with the help of Shunpo & BOI, and let Ki awoken run its course on them. But I can picture a lot of other classes/builds getting raped by this easily due to the massive damage output. (200-300 damage a shoot with a 30 ki blast is really aids). My suggestion isn't to save them but to save the others who doesn't spam that shit like that. So the good doesn't suffer too much with the bad.
I actually can't agree with adding Kadouha to the Ki Suppression list, because then you have the best spammable magic damage skill in the game, scaling well above any invocation just for 3m, all without spending your Ki so you can spend it later with a simple toggle passive.

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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by Senna » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:15 pm

Spoops wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:22 am

I actually can't agree with adding Kadouha to the Ki Suppression list, because then you have the best spammable magic damage skill in the game, scaling well above any invocation just for 3m, all without spending your Ki so you can spend it later with a simple toggle passive.
Yeah but the thing about that, it's pretty much the same as using Kadouha without the Ki (Since you only need Ki for the 3 tile wide spam and knockdown), you can still spam it all the same so nothing much would change aside from the person can controlling their Ki usage. What I was suggesting is to add it to the suppress list. So it works like Kadouha with zero Ki so people who thinks about Ki maintenance won't feel the heavy nerf from it while people who only has Monk to constantly spam Kadouha kinda won't be THAT affected aside from them using Kadoha with 30Ki once and using Kadoha with 0ki next. While the ones with Suppression can decide if they really want to use 30ki Kadoha or suppress themselves and only use the zero ki Kaomeme. It'll give it more the tactical feel. That and people who wishes to use it more tactical will also need to make room for Suppression was well. (It ain't slot-free) J.S: Kadmeme with 0 Ki is a one line projectile that can reach out to like 5-6 tiles in front. It only increase in size at to three lines/tiles at 10 Ki, at 20 I believe it increase travel range and at 30, it knocks down whoever it hits. Suppress removes the Ki bonus a technique would receive, which means it'd be the same as a 0 Ki Kadmeme.
Last edited by Senna on Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Senna
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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by Senna » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:20 pm

Aqua wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:31 am
As a person who uses this skill alot I say go ahead and remove the Ki awoken bonus it receives for pretty much several of the reasons stated above.

As for the adding it to the Ki suppression list i don't think it would really change since it just reacts the same way as not having any Ki built up in the first place. The Ki suppression skill pretty much prevents it from causing knockdown iirc.
That's kinda exactly the point, so people decide if they want the three tiles long Kadmeme with the knockdown or save it for another time and use the normal zero ki version. You can kinda turn Suppression on and off during battle. It'll give you the sense of planning and correct ki usage.

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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by Spoops » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:50 pm

I don't think you understand, if it suppress Ki were to apply, the weakness of Kadouha would be taken away, in that it takes all of your ki and to spam it would mean you would consistently be without ki, making you less versatile as a result for spamming such a strong skill.

Its either remove the Ki Awoken interaction with Ki, or give it a lengthy cooldown, something like 3 rounds.

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Re: Kadwhoaha

Post by Senna » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:13 pm

But the point I was kinda trying to get across is that if someone who only uses it like that without caring about the Ki drawback, this nerf won't affect them whatsoever. Like you said yourself, it's a strong skill on it own, with or without Ki. Example, I'm a Kensei/Monk, I don't really depend that much on the meme or Ki usage; it's all about Ki awoken for the bonus stats. If i can't hit someone with my basic attack and I myself don't care that much about Ki usage, nothing is really stopping me from spamming this strong technique (And Dragon Gale) nonetheless because I wouldn't care enough if it had Ki for the big blast or not; it's all about getting that autohit damage across. As it is now, it only gives them a reason to use it with Ki awoken on.

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