Aptitude and builds

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Shujin
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Shujin » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:30 pm

I agree with Chaos aswell, actually. Sure it will be one small inconvenience but it's bette to remove it now, than later when we actually fix the whole system around it like some sort of patchwok system.

Not to mention that hayttrs APT is even an oversight it shouldn't be that high, that we back then said "Well, it's a small one and it would be unfair for them to remove it cause it forces them to rebuild". But if the same goes for everyone it's fair...It's not like there are no ways to make this a one time thing for everyone...With like you know? Either a free fruit, a short while where an NPC allows a respec, or whatever.

It's an inconvenience, yes.A small one time thing. Not like leveling is any sort of challange at the moment.
Most people agree that this stat is weird in itself and a thing that is super untransperent for newbies. And the newbies are the ones that have the most trouble leveling and stuff, and almost everytime they fully ignore APT cause they don't really understand its impact (Also the Exp% boost isn't written anywhere, same as the luc drop rate boost)... So come on, I know its an annoying change like all changes, but in the long run it's probably better for all.
Last edited by Shujin on Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Chaos » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:28 pm

Snake wrote:Well, it's quite the thing to weight here. At one hand, you can have a much better control over where you want to specialize and not, it will probably make focused builds insanely more strong while bolstering more open weaknesses. (Such as squishy people becoming more squishy, and tanky becoming less hit-y or ever dreaming of proccing Evasion against other tanks.) And at the other hand, all-around people will fall from 'good' to worse than bad, because it will once again become a go full tank or go full dodge case, unless a specific number becomes the meta again.

The idea is not bad, making builds have a more solid influence (and hopefully solve the NPC case) is something good to have. What's bad and the cause of my disagreement is that this may delay by a chunk whatever plans are to come next, and I doubt Dev will want to approach this without a very solid reason than 'spray and pray it works', just to have people whining about it not being enough/being too much in the near future.

I'd hold off the thought until post trait rework, and give it more time to think about this.

You are greatly over-exaggerating the effects of this change. Let me get this out of the way: Assuming APT is removed and Stats Per Level is increased to 4 (or 4.1, if you REALLY want to include the 42~43/49~50 crowd), There is little to no change to stat spreads as they currently exist. They only get the opportunity to either allot the points as Aptitude would place them, or distribute them in a different manner. Mind, I say 'little to none' because anyone that went beyond 36 APT is going to see a 5~6 point loss, which is not only very minor (considering Hyattrs didn't get their 4 Base APT removed), but the player gains the option to control where those 'lost points' are assigned, in the form of letting one stat go without a few points or letting a few stats go without one point. Odds are this will just be balanced out by dumping the least necessary stat and moving forward from there.

The rare builds that don't use APT will, inevitably, receive a buff from this-- but between Diminishing Returns, the glaring flaws they left in their build and the whole 'skills = equipment > stats' situation, it is very unlikely they will suddenly see a superb spike in their 'hyperfocused builds'. It is far more likely that they'll get to pick up a niche in their build-- niches that our current SPL doesn't give any room to harness, mind you-- than make their build suddenly destroy the meta and steal everyones' girlfriends/wives/etc in one sweep.

This is not a 'spray and pray' change. This is a change I have put serious thought and calculations into, and I am very well aware of what effects will come about if this change was implemented. Effects that, from what your post is telling me, you are overlooking in your panic. This is not going to suddenly bring up some extremely exaggerated builds, nor is the meta going to see Great Reckoning levels of upheaval. It is a simple change of granting more freedom in stat allotment, and a chance for niche elements to see the light of day.

It's also why, if this change is going to be implemented, it needs to be done without trying to shelve it until there's some dire need for it. You have plenty of time to think upon it-- and I mean REALLY think on it, not just assume the worst without checking the numbers.
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MegaBlues
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby MegaBlues » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:00 pm

Assuming APT is removed and Stats Per Level is increased to 4 (or 4.1, if you REALLY want to include the 42~43/49~50 crowd), There is little to no change to stat spreads as they currently exist.


refer to my previous post

what is the point in removing apt if it won't change anyone's build

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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Neus » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:58 am

I don't really see any pressing need to remove or adjust APT.

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Shujin
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Shujin » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:34 pm

Can you atleast add some mouseover options for Apt/Luc that say that they increase Exp/Droprate.

Currently it's impossible for new players to know unless being told....Same as you need to tell them to restart over cause they forgot to build Apt. I haven't played for a while but back then I had to tell alot of new players those things, that really could just be explained.

Those are my personal main concerns, that new players absolutely can't handle this stat because it's a cryptic weird thing.

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Lolzytripd
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Lolzytripd » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:12 pm

Neus wrote:I don't really see any pressing need to remove or adjust APT.

For the sake of fairness, remove free SANC from aptitude.

Its a positive stat for most races, but it negatively affects corrupted.

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Rendar
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Rendar » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:13 pm

I'd rather it not lose San from Apt.

Just make it an option / default for Corrupted.
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Snake » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:44 pm

I bet this is already an idea for Traits, so no need to be prodding this further, sheesh.
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Lolzytripd » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:06 am

Also if we're keeping Apt, buff orichalum to count stat difference instead of level difference.

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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Spoops » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:48 am

Lolzytripd wrote:Also if we're keeping Apt, buff orichalum to count stat difference instead of level difference.


That makes no sense in this context.

Elaborate?


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