Look ma', two hands.

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A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
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Spoops
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Look ma', two hands.

Post by Spoops » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:54 am

Two hand is just a little bit strong, I feel its taken dual-wielding and especially daggers out of the picture when it comes to damage, it also scales both autohits and basic attacks alike pretty well, it could probably make do with a bit of a damage cut since its very easy to hit 20 weight on a weapon nowadays thanks to remain materials.


I'd propose that Two hand remain at 10% extra damage when fulfilling its normal conditions, and be increased by 50% when your weapon is 20 weight or more, so that it becomes 15% extra SWA.

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Lolzytripd
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Re: Look ma', two hands.

Post by Lolzytripd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:11 am

while its a good idea to reign in two hand I feel we'd also need to do something for axes since they rely on it for a greater portion of it's damage steroids.

Spears and swords already get good flottment use but axe duelists don't have that luxury.

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Spoops
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Re: Look ma', two hands.

Post by Spoops » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:22 am

Lolzytripd wrote:while its a good idea to reign in two hand I feel we'd also need to do something for axes since they rely on it for a greater portion of it's damage steroids.

Spears and swords already get good flottment use but axe duelists don't have that luxury.

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Axes will be fine, spears are more meant for accuracy which they get in spades.

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Snake
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Re: Look ma', two hands.

Post by Snake » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:24 pm

I support this.

Why should I use anything else but a sword, if those can't get bonuses from two-hands? (Spears are out of question, and Axes are a gamble versus dodgenerds) It's either nerfing the damage, or making it so that two-hand applies to all weapons, whichever is easier or more reasonable to apply.
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Raigen.Convict
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Re: Look ma', two hands.

Post by Raigen.Convict » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:30 pm

I don't think we need to have two hand applied to ranged weapons/Tomes.
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Fern
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Re: Look ma', two hands.

Post by Fern » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:26 pm

I'd rather give bonuses to other weapons for two-handing, honestly. Not sure what would be good ones, but an example of what I mean is stuff like "+hit and crit to guns if two-handing." We've still got dagger bursters lately, from what I've seen in the PVP scene - the only thing I actually don't see is a VA. That said, I feel like a change to two-hand would only be impactful if it applied to other weapons in some form.
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Re: Look ma', two hands.

Post by Grandpa » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:57 pm

Fern wrote:the only thing I actually don't see is a VA.
That's most likely because the whole class is just (almost) worthless unless you're main classing it.

Other than that, I like the idea of mixing up what two-hand does based on whatever weapon you're using it. More accuracy and crit for guns would make the most sense in that regard, maybe more crit for tomes so book-smack can get a little love or some such like that. I dunno.
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Fern
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Re: Look ma', two hands.

Post by Fern » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:52 pm

Here's some ideas, if the thought is appealing enough:

Gun: SR*2 Bonus Hit and Critical
Tome: SR*2% Spell FP cost decrease
Bow: Probably the same as guns, unless there's something better out there...
Dagger: SR*2 Bonus Critical and Critical Damage.
Fist: SR*2 Bonus Hit
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Ranylyn
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Re: Look ma', two hands.

Post by Ranylyn » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:21 pm

Just throwing some random musings out there. Feel free to consider none, one, or all.


New Talents for Category: Two-Hand

Talent: Archivist: If equipped with only a single tome and no other weapon, changes the tome's element to that of the last damage type inflicted.

Reason for suggesting it: Spells matching the tome's element get a larger bonus. This allows the mage to pinpoint weaknesses (or at least avoid resistances) more effectively, or even bypass elemental resists all together by setting the element of the tome to something else (Such as Slash, from Wind Slasher) and attacking normally as a last resort.


New Talent Category: Dual Wield

Talent: Parry:
If wielding two weapons and only attacking with one this turn, gain SR*5 Evade. Bonus is lost for the whole round if both are attacked with. (Is also negated by dagger dance and akimbo.)

Reason for suggesting it: A more defensive option to offset the raw damage of two-handed weapons.

Talent: Flurry:
If wielding two weapons and attacking with both, opponent's Evade is reduced by SR*5 for any subsequent attacks. (Benefits Dagger Dance and Akimbo.)

Reason for suggesting it: It's hard to evade when an opponent's going berserk in your face and attacking from multiple angles. I thought about making it bonus damage, but decided that might not be the best idea due to things like momentum cost reductions on Verglas/Demon Hunter, and Stylish dungeons.

Talent: Flow like Fire
If using two weapons of different elements (Slash/Pierce/Blunt not included) halve resistance to those elements made with these weapons only.

Reason for suggesting it: Sets like the Yin/Yang, or the elemental daggers. Maybe the Dragon Swords. If you can hit a weakness, elements can be great, but it's also FAR too easy to just get elementally walled out by a bad matchup, and a second weapon prevents the use of a nihilist. This doesn't NEGATE elemental resist, but it does make it EASIER for people with two elemental weapons to cope with it without being gamebreaking.


New Trait: Berserk Rush (Togglable)
Swinging both Melee weapons in unison, the weapon power of both hands is applied at 75% (150% total power if both weapons have the same power) as a single attack. Does not benefit from Two-Handed or Dual Wield talents, and only the on-hit effects of the main hand are applied. Only applies one instance of damage.

Why I'm suggesting it: It's only weapon power, NOT SWA. It sounds stronger than it is. While the Salamander Sword could be an issue, we could always look into only applying it's effects to the Main Hand Only (it'd take two Salamander Swords to make this worth abusing; a single sword would be stronger without Berserk Rush.) Basically, it's just an option for a slightly harder hit with characters who want to use the skills of two different melee weapons without needing to Two-Hand an Argus or Varon or something (or running Reaver.)
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Re: Look ma', two hands.

Post by Neus » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:52 pm

I don't see why a bow would get any two-hand bonuses considering there's no other way to fire one.

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