Freaking formation!

"VAs are too strong!" "Evokers are too weak!" "Nerf Kinu!"
A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
User avatar
Shujin
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:48 pm

Freaking formation!

Post by Shujin » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:35 pm

Frigid formation looks on paper really strong with it's high ice atk scaling, but in reality it is lacking alot considering the set up it requires/FP cost/3 CD.
No one is really going to stay in your formation tiles, which you could have just aswell used to help your allies. And for that the damage ain't bigger as other set ups that require less.

So I was thinking that it might, for the times you actually manage to pull it off...How about it also grants Frozen, for 2 rounds, if the enemy was splashed before? That could make it much more useful and worth picking up. OR actually grand something like Ice weakness 6%*rank for 3 rounds?

Currently it just feels lackluster, and not really combos into their own stuff like other tactician spells do or into anything at all for that matter.

User avatar
Spoops
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2362
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:25 am
Location: Somewhere

Re: Freaking formation!

Post by Spoops » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:00 pm

Feels really strong considering you can alter the range of some formations (Not to mention positional swapping such as Swap Position and Vanishing Strike), Frozen really should only be limited to Frigid arrow, but I agree that frigid formation is pretty weak on its own.

Simply because nobody's gonna be standing in your formation, and using something like Attack formation then using frigid formation isn't very worth it.

User avatar
Fern
Omega Poster
Omega Poster
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:46 pm
Location: Venezuela

Re: Freaking formation!

Post by Fern » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:14 pm

I was honestly considering making a thread about Frigid Formation myself. I don't really see anyone ever using it, and when I considered it myself, I noped pretty hard.

While I'm up for making it more appealing, I'm not sure what can be done. Maybe the ice weakness part but eh...

Nowadays it's much easier to double-tap the enemy with spells than pull them into your formation for Frigid Formation, anyway.
Image

User avatar
Shujin
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:48 pm

Re: Freaking formation!

Post by Shujin » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:04 pm

Yeah thats the thing, frigid arrow has basically almos the same set up aswell, but is aloooooooot easier to use. Thats why I suggested it, cause I feel like a tactican can make better use of that. BUT again it was just a suggestion since ....Frostbite? Doesn't really work well with it. Celsius? You don't really need that AFTER you set them up.

So I kinda ran out of ideas what to actually do with it.

User avatar
Spoops
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2362
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:25 am
Location: Somewhere

Re: Freaking formation!

Post by Spoops » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:55 am

You could make it inflict an ice weakness, besides, when it comes to Frozen, the status is meant for keeping someone in place, and generally you don't want people in your formation anyway which is why it has a high elemental atk value.

User avatar
Shujin
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:48 pm

Re: Freaking formation!

Post by Shujin » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:05 pm

Well the two formations that are even remotely useable for this are Attack and bunker formation.

The idea of why Frozen would be useful is, once you set that up against a speedy enemy with say...Bunker formation, your allies can sourround him and still get a defense boost to attack him.

Alternatively you use next round a new formation, knowing your enemy is going to be in place and can't evade and set up a long range attack formation. Or arcane formation, knowing he won't trigger evade anymore. So it's more useful then one might think by just looking on it on paper. Generally knowing he won't be able to dodge the next attack can also help you set up like dark eyes that can actually reliably attack with basic and hit aswell. The uses aren't as little as one might think on first glance.
ALso you make them stay in the formation most likely anyway, thanks to spalsh, what you do with frozen is just set them up for your teammates to murder more easily.


But I am fine with it giving Ice weakness aswell. It just needs something. It does have the same CD as Frigid arrows frozen attack aswell, so I do not believe thats unfair, considering frigid arrow is easier to use.

User avatar
Chaos
GM
GM
Posts: 937
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:35 pm
Location: nope

Re: Freaking formation!

Post by Chaos » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:31 pm

Frigid Formation's issue is, as far as I see, a byproduct of how bad Formation skills are in general.

While the ice spell could certainly use a buff, the Formation skills REALLY need to be pared down to 3 Ranks, move with the Tactician (or via a skill), and/or always count the Tactician itself as part of the formation. There's simply too much going against them for anything other than Volley Formation to even be remotely considered in a serious battle, be it PvE or PvP.
Image
[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye

User avatar
Ryuzaki
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 10:02 pm

Re: Freaking formation!

Post by Ryuzaki » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:05 pm

Chaos is right on this, the only useful formation I've actually seen is Volley, and that's usually only useful if you can kite some pretty nasty distance.
Image

User avatar
Shujin
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:48 pm

Re: Freaking formation!

Post by Shujin » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:18 pm

Well I mean...While I agree that some formations really are kinda useless, like arcance formations invocation break part (Since you usually have 100%unbreakable anyway). In case of frigid formation the best ones are Bunker and Attack since those are the only ones you can actually move and place.
Bunker technically being the best cause its a straight line, meaning when you move in to attack after, you atleast get some benefit from it, the triangle of attack formation is...weird for that matter, still good to atleast get frigid formation of in the first place. Volley works when they stand directly next to you, and arcance...Basically unuseable for this,or rather in very specific cases.

But even if placement wasn't a problem, a double tap of any other spell is flatout stronger(and usually has a status effect aswell). So even then, it still needs a buff of sorts in the form of a staus effect that makes it a bit more interesting, preferably.

How about something fancy as it's effect:
If an enemy is on your formation tile, he absorbs also range=rank ice tiles around them (circle) and increases the damage it deals by Ice tiles consumed %

If ally stands on your formation tile they absorb range=rank ice tiles around them and grand them a armor level ice tiles consumed*2, that reduces it's level per damage received (See Jarmor effect)
That way it has the special OOMPH when it has been set up probably and if you have partners, it can also be used as an assistance spell, instead of just an offensive. Besides I like the idea of actually using ice tiles for stuff. Just a random thought that popped up. Probably still not the right way to go about it, cause the set up for this is....Way too much.

User avatar
Snake
Posted to Death
Posted to Death
Posts: 2233
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: O.W.L.S Underground Motherbase - Main Office

Re: Freaking formation!

Post by Snake » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:49 am

More like. Formation skills should be 'permanent' or at least have a chunky duration. People standing on them or not, sort of like Glyphs do. It becomes a spot in the field that equals tactical advantage.
Image
Image ~ Dev, 08/16/2016.

Post Reply