Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

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Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Snake » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:38 pm

Aaahhh, Lunar Lunatism, the Super Vampire-jin transformation that leads them to go even further BYOND! It's a pretty powerful and unique skill right now, the way it is.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
The true power of the vampire is said to be linked to the moon, and anyone who has seen a vampire go all out can say for certain it has to come from somewhere. Can only be used while at 100 or more Essence. Upon using this skill, you enter a moonlight rage, curing yourself and becoming immune to Fear, Hesitation, and Charm. Furthermore, you gain the following effects:
* Damage you deal will also attempt to inflict Fear on the target.
* Enemies who attack you may be inflicted by Hesitation.
* Enemies facing you at the start of a new round have a chance to be inflicted with Charm.
* Recover 15% of your Scaled SAN as FP every round.

This effect and all inflicted status effects last for 3 rounds, and have LVs equal to your Scaled SAN.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


So I thought that a special condition like this would be fitting.

So, comparing the Live Lunar Lunatism with the Beta's Lunatism, it seems to be even better since the drain on essence's been removed. (Probably for bug testing, but hey, that made me think about it.) So, why not make Lunar Lunatism only available to be used at night time for Vampires, (like some passives from Youkai or the Umbrals, we see that it's possible to be made.) since it makes more sense they reach the peak of their powers when the sun's not bothering them, instead of essence-nuking drains?

Then, make it cost 6M to activate, and be active for 5 Rounds.
And to further balance it since it does so much for a Vampire, make them unable to use Silvermists or Banquet while it's active.


And that's all for sucky suggestions about something unique, I'd like to read other people's opinions about it. (mainly at LL working at night only, yeah, since this is /the/ subject of this topic.)
Last edited by Snake on Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Spoops » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:21 pm

Lunar Lunatism currently has no downsides to using it, while giving them many, MANY benefits, however I do like this, you basically just give out the fact you're a vampire, for really good buffs that just make you downright scary to deal with. As it should be when fighting a vampire, however it is very strong given everything.

I have a suggestion to make this a cool skill to use, and the OP has the right idea but could be executed better.

The skill now costs 6M to use, but the buff it provides will last until your essence is drained to 0
The skill now drains 25 Essence per round (But this is doubled during the day, when the moon isn't showing)
Silvermists still uses 33% of your essence and then heals 3 per essence, but the healing effect is increased by 1.5x (balanced off by Lunar Lunatism costing essence per round)
You cannot use banquet during Lunar Lunatism.
After Lunar Lunatism ends, you gain a debuff that prevents gathering essence for 3 rounds.

What do you think Dev? These suggestions are mostly because Lunar Lunatism has absolutely no downside to using it, not even an FP cost or Essence cost for that matter.

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Re: Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Snake » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:52 pm

That one sounds good indeed, as long as it doesn't start draining essence after the 6M cast. Dev, please do this! (The heart-change is real.)

Also for the no-essence debuff? Name it 'Dehydrated' and make Vampires take extra 30% light damage while on it, making Lunar Lunatism a high risk, high reward skill.

(Even if I don't agree they're 'gaining' light resist for spending essence, as I've discussed with him on skype, here it is something else to add.)
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Re: Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Rendar » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:30 pm

Spoops wrote:Lunar Lunatism currently has no downsides to using it, while giving them many, MANY benefits, however I do like this, you basically just give out the fact you're a vampire, for really good buffs that just make you downright scary to deal with. As it should be when fighting a vampire, however it is very strong given everything.

I have a suggestion to make this a cool skill to use, and the OP has the right idea but could be executed better.

The skill now costs 6M to use, but the buff it provides will last until your essence is drained to 0
The skill now drains 25 Essence per round (But this is doubled during the day, when the moon isn't showing)
Silvermists still uses 33% of your essence and then heals 3 per essence, but the healing effect is increased by 1.5x (balanced off by Lunar Lunatism costing essence per round)
You cannot use banquet during Lunar Lunatism.
After Lunar Lunatism ends, you gain a debuff that prevents gathering essence for 3 rounds.

What do you think Dev? These suggestions are mostly because Lunar Lunatism has absolutely no downside to using it, not even an FP cost or Essence cost for that matter.



'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
The true power of the vampire is said to be linked to the moon, and anyone who has seen a vampire go all out can say for certain it has to come from somewhere. Can only be used while at 100 or more Essence. Upon using this skill, you enter a moonlight rage, curing yourself and becoming immune to Fear, Hesitation, and Charm. Furthermore, you gain the following effects:
* Damage you deal will also attempt to inflict Fear on the target.
* Enemies who attack you may be inflicted by Hesitation.
* Enemies facing you at the start of a new round have a chance to be inflicted with Charm.
* Recover 15% of your Scaled SAN as FP every round.

This effect and all inflicted status effects last for 3 rounds, and have LVs equal to your Scaled SAN.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

There are many ways to go about this, however I feel that Spo's is a bit lackluster, all things considered. As of right now, it's overbearing because it doesn't drain Essence. Let's go in small moderations, for the time being.

The skill costs 6m to use, but it lasts until your essence is completely drained to 0.
The skill drains 25 Essence per round, whether it is day or night. However, if it is night, it uses full scaled sanctity, unlike during the day, where it will use half scaled sanctity.
Silvermists will use 33% of your essence and heals 3 per essence. However this effect is enhanced during night time to 2x, and during night-time it is 1.5x (Silvermists will drop your rounds on Lunar Lunatism quickly, after all).
You cannot use banquet during Lunar Lunatism.
After Lunar Lunatism ends, you cannot gather essence for 3 rounds.
If you drop a living creature to 0 HP during combat with Lunar Lunatism active, you gain Essence based off of their vit or yours, whichever is lower (MIN: 10)
Galeon Zviera's turn.
Critical Hit! Galeon Zviera attacks Jammer with Floating Red Letter and hits them!
Jammer takes 8420 Pierce damage.

Tiny Fawn Girl recovered 8550 HP.
Isabelline recovered 8550 HP.


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Re: Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Chaos » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:46 am

Is this a balance topic, or a 'drive Lunar Lunatism into absolute uselessness' topic? I think we've blurred the lines here pretty badly.

I can easily see why Lunar Lunatism has no downsides: It's upsides don't even warrant downsides. Here's why:

1. Each and every status it sports must run through the Status Infliction check. Guess what happens when the target has enough Status Resistance to shrug them off?
2. Shaitans can shrug off LL without a second thought, and anyone with Recklessness on their boards can wave off the effects for the same duration as LL's
3. What is arguably the worst of the status effects requires you to be facing them at the start of each round before the infliction chance even runs-- something you can easily cheese in a vast majority of circumstances
4. Their FP Regen is about the same level as Kensei's inate

None of this warrants such drastic drawbacks. Why do we even need to tack on such ridiculous conditions, to where a Vampire will have to throw all their stat boosts down the drain at a steady pace and inevitably take stat penalties for a couple rounds afterwards (and then have to regain all that essence back), just for the ability to MAYBE tack on a few status effects that people can already throw out the window or ignore outright, and a small amount of FP regained each round?

The ONLY thing about Lunar Lunatism that can be legitimately considered overbearing is that it can be constantly reactivated without any care in the world. The optimal solution for this is a cooldown-- where you cannot reactivate Lunar Lunatism for a number of rounds following it's activation (yes, that means a cooldown of at least 4~5 rounds)... Not a bunch of conditions that ultimately makes the skill far too punishing to really use.
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Re: Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Neus » Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:36 am

Chaos wrote:The optimal solution for this is a cooldown-- where you cannot reactivate Lunar Lunatism for a number of rounds following it's activation (yes, that means a cooldown of at least 4~5 rounds)...


I've actually been messing around with a cooldown system for active skills, maybe we'll beta test that sometime in the future.

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Re: Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Spoops » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:19 pm

Chaos wrote:'drive Lunar Lunatism into absolute uselessness'


That would imply that up to lvl 60ish hesitation and charm are in any way useless, but we can try cooldown, I don't forsee it going anywhere in terms of balance.

Assuming the vampire in question builds about 52 SAN

I can easily see why Lunar Lunatism has no downsides: It's upsides don't even warrant downsides. Here's why:

1. Each and every status it sports must run through the Status Infliction check. Guess what happens when the target has enough Status Resistance to shrug them off?

My 1400 HP Vampire with lvl 55 charm and hesitation, 30 def 30 res is able to achieve 230 status infliction with hexer, and my healer tank is able to achieve 150 status resistance(and she builds mostly FAI and has Pray, the 3 fairies from grand summoner, regarded as some of the highest status resistance on main server), 20% chance to not inflict. The argument is almost invalid, but I will give it that they all have status infliction checks and thus the vampire in question without hexer or rustic will suffer.

2. Shaitans can shrug off LL without a second thought, and anyone with Recklessness on their boards can wave off the effects for the same duration as LL's

And every other race? Anyone not running Shaitans or guns gets screwed, no counterplay in this sense, cause only gunners and shaitans can get the immunities, and a priest, but priest is supposed to stop this stuff anyway.

3. What is arguably the worst of the status effects requires you to be facing them at the start of each round before the infliction chance even runs-- something you can easily cheese in a vast majority of circumstances

How is, in any way shape or form, -50%(or more) damage on a 50+ SAN vampire, useless? Secondly, that vampire only needs to be slow in order to inflict charm, build tanky, while stacking a 50% DR essentially, I could show you this later on my 1400 HP Vampire, very little counterplay is available.

4. Their FP Regen is about the same level as Kensei's inate

This I do not have a problem with, actually.


Anyway, as I said

we can try cooldown, I don't forsee it going anywhere in terms of balance.


I'm mainly only saying this because I like the idea of them being super scary, but these buffs make them literally the best race in the game, and can cover their light weakness with sunglasses and idk, a -50% damage charm.

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Re: Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Shujin » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:49 pm

I can easily see why Lunar Lunatism has no downsides: It's upsides don't even warrant downsides. Here's why:

1. Each and every status it sports must run through the Status Infliction check. Guess what happens when the target has enough Status Resistance to shrug them off?

My 1400 HP Vampire with lvl 55 charm and hesitation, 30 def 30 res is able to achieve 230 status infliction with hexer, and my healer tank is able to achieve 150 status resistance(and she builds mostly FAI and has Pray, the 3 fairies from grand summoner, regarded as some of the highest status resistance on main server), 20% chance to not inflict. The argument is almost invalid, but I will give it that they all have status infliction checks and thus the vampire in question without hexer or rustic will suffer.


a Vampire without really trying gets naturally a super high infliction chance of easily around 120-150(without Hexer obviously). which is so high that people that try to build melee for example, get Hesitation pretty much after every attack. and Hesitation level 50%+ on a melee build, with no way to do anything about it and potentinally getting another 50%+ reduction in damage. Yeah balanced and useless status effects...

And spos healer tank is pretty much already one heck of a Stauts resist character. You won´t get much better, And even that gets the infliction hammer.(granted the vampire also uses Hexer, but even without it, the absulte Status resist has still a chance of around 20-30% to get inflicted with it.)


So yeah, I absolutely disagree with your arguments aswell, Chaos.
We can test the cool down tho.*shrugs*

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Re: Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Snake » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:51 pm

Well, cooldowns would look fine, I agree and such, but in the end they'd be a little 'robotic' in a way.

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Re: Lunar Lunatism and "d'moon".

Postby Kameron8 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:15 am

Lunar Lunatism should be allowed to be a terrifying thing, but it shouldn't be something you can spam. Retain the functionality it has on live: while under its effects, no gaining essence. Every turn, you lose a sizable portion of your essence until you hit 0. Then it ends.

You suffer no loss in identity; people still dread the portion of the fight they have to combat Lunar Lunatism. It's exceptionally powerful. But right now, it's just used over and over and over again for no cost.


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