Bad Bots

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A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
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K Peculier
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Re: Bad Bots

Postby K Peculier » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:23 pm

At the moment, bots costing a whopping 50fp only to be destroyed in less than 3 turns is a tad anti-climatic. I don't think the bots could be spammed so easily as well considering you can only have one of the type out at once.

Them having neat skills that aren't basic attacks would greatly implement some benefits to using them and the engineer class in general.
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Snake
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Re: Bad Bots

Postby Snake » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:00 pm

It's exactly what they need. Not 'new' things, just take a bit from what already exists and apply over to the bots. They should be an extension of the Engineer class's skills, each bot should be what a player would be, not through upgrades, but coming in with the pack already.

At this point, I doubt there would be a single person who would be against having Engineers ruling over teamfights like they did a long, long time ago, prior to those adjustments to the class that made their robots obsolete as heck.
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Re: Bad Bots

Postby MegaBlues » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:11 pm

Having a single class dominate any aspect of the game when classes are easily changeable sounds like a recipe for disaster.

But Engineer still needs a buff.

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Re: Bad Bots

Postby Snake » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:44 am

Even though they did, Engineers still would need to be 'built for' to be effective, like they are now. You build a proper Engineer, and don't get rewarded for your investments, nor you can enjoy the class to its full due to how terribly underpowered their 'summons' are.
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Re: Bad Bots

Postby Shujin » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:56 pm

MegaBlues wrote:Having a single class dominate any aspect of the game when classes are easily changeable sounds like a recipe for disaster.

*Cough* Hexer *cough*

Jokes aside. I think adding some passive effects to the Bots could help a shit ton.

Medibot could benefit from the alchemy talent alittle, to gain range for it's medicine and boosted effects. Currently medibots are sort of terrible because if they use their healing potion you are on potion sickness...And you much rather want to drown your own boosted PR-high potion for that, so it's healing is rarely of any use. You can argument that you save 3M but...Since you deploy it...You don't.

Aegis main problem is that protect itself is terribly bugged. For one. Then it also goes down way to fast. I think giving it a shield, and with that defense aswell, would make it alot better once potect is fixed.

Turrent just can't hit for shit with it's basic attacks petty much like youkai. I have seen tanks dodge them just becasue they build a little luc for Crit evade. So they could easily get a straight +50hit buff, and they would still not be hitting anything thats remotely dodgey, but...It would help atleast. Maybe give them some sort of lock on skill which buffs there hit for one shot or two turns even.

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Re: Bad Bots

Postby Raigen.Convict » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:35 pm

Turret locks on and gains like 100 hit and 50 crit v.s. the target. Sounds nice honestly. And then this locked on target takes like 10% more damage maybe? Might be a bit much... But only turrets do this.
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DoctorMad
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Re: Bad Bots

Postby DoctorMad » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:35 pm

Well what can I say, I think Spoop's response was disappointing since it basically avoided the main chuck of the argument. I think Chaos bought up the key points of the actual problem in itself.

I will reference statistics again, but take note: I am doing so in a more direct way. Instead of just talking about a stat directly(as with Spoops last post), I will reference the stat it raises directly. In this case, CEL and Evasion. Now, the medbot, with its 61 CEL + 21 LCK, is at 141 Evade total, which, whoa there, sure sounds big. Players cap at 40+their stat base, so this is above the average, right?
Meanwhile players trying for the same amount of CEL(even after being destroyed by the scaled stat's nerf hammer) are mysteriously all at the 220-250~ evade range. Can someone explain this small discrepancy to me? I felt that, since bot stats are so big, they should be able to evade everything!
The response is that bots do not have class passives, talents and other things that easily are where half of their evasion comes form. 70% damage reduction seems impressive? Players are able to hit that+flat damage reduction+crit evasion+another 10% damage reduction passive.
Note that I am not saying that bots should have all those things: I think they ought to be weaker than players. But as of now the gap is too far and they are unable to change anything.

Oh by the way I took the freedom to pick up a example battle. This Gygax Rex is much weaker than the usual PvE event mob, but it will have to do. Witness, my turret bot's staggering 42 damage per turn against a boss creature that is a bit more challenging than usual.
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Did I cherry pick that? No, not really. If I wanted to cherry pick, I'd bring my character to a GM event and talked about it. Except wait, that really isn't cherrypicking-- GM events are a part of the game and classes should be able to be helpful in them.
Anyways, Engineers are currently unable to participate in PvP content or more serious PvE content.
As a solution to this, I believe we have to give Robots passives as I mentioned. The active mentioned above also works.

On a final note, I would be happy with keeping the giant FP costs bots have. Am I weird? Apologies.
Last edited by DoctorMad on Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bad Bots

Postby Spoops » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:44 pm

DoctorMad wrote:I will reference statistics again, but take note: I am doing so in a more direct way. Instead of just talking about a stat directly(as in Spoops last post), I will reference the stat it raises directly. In this case, CEL and Evasion. Now, the medbot, with its 61 CEL + 21 LCK, is at 141 Evade total, which, whoa there, sure sounds big. Players cap at 40+their stat base, so this is above the average, right?
Meanwhile players trying for the same amount of CEL(even after being destroyed by the scaled stat's nerf hammer) are mysteriously all at the 220-250~ evade range. Can someone explain this small discrepancy to me? I felt that, since bot stats are so big, they should be able to evade everything!
The response is that bots do not have passives that make up for the weakness of stats being alone. 70% damage reduction seems impressive? Players are able to hit that+flat damage reduction+crit evasion+A extra 1 or 2 10% damage reduction modifiers(multiplicative).
Note that I am not saying that bots should have all those things: I think they ought to be weaker than players. But as of now the gap is too far.

Oh by the way I took the freedom to pick up a example battle. This Gygax Rex is much weaker than the usual PvE event mob, but it will have to do. Witness, my turret bot's staggering 42 damage per turn against a boss creature that is a bit more challenging than usual.

Did I cherry pick that? No, not really. If I wanted to cherry pick, I'd bring my character to a GM event and talked about it. Except wait, that really isn't cherrypicking-- GM events are a part of the game and classes should be able to be helpful in them.
Anyways, Engineers are currently unable to participate in PvP content or more serious PvE content.
As a solution to this, I believe we have to give Robots passives as I mentioned. The active mentioned above also works.



So what are you saying, you want bots to be stronger than lvl 60 characters? Keep in mind that Players who achieve those numbers in the Evade stat are also accounting for LUC not just CEL, on top of that CEL is not only the evade stat but the initiative stat, the Medibot has high initiative, higher than most players infact meaning it can churn out its heals with the utmost priority when the next turn rolls around, especially if said Engineer has built to be slower than the rest of everyone else.

Thats why the Medibot has decent DEF and RES to begin with, its clearly not meant to dodge.

70% Damage reduction is huge, its bigger than what players get that don't spec entirely into their DEF stat more often than not, or even on par with that, and for something you can renew as well.


Engineer is not all that strong, but what I meant about destiny engineer surely wasn't a joke, it is the strongest class can be right now on its own, as a support class it is still powerful with the bombs and the upgrades.

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DoctorMad
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Re: Bad Bots

Postby DoctorMad » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:47 pm

Okay nevermind, it seems I should have ignored Spoops form the start. Once again it seems he is unable to reply to the main bulk of the post, and I still don't have a reasonable explanation as to how -100% hit chance is "okay", much less how buffing that will make bots "strong as level 60 players".


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