The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

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Noxid
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Re: The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

Postby Noxid » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:12 am

Others have said many of the things I get salty about with guards but my personal one is the fact guards can meta call for backup something which is against the rules for everyone else. Like dude if you came to some remote corner of Lispool alone to investigate some crime accept that you fucked up. But nah gotta win bruh I'll press my magic button that tells everyone in the guard chat to get you ass over here for some fun 6 vs 2 pvp

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Re: The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

Postby Sawrock » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:56 pm

Chaos wrote:
Lolzytripd wrote:What I mean is if a crime is committed in say...dormeho, imperial guards cannot arrest you in chaturanga, and chaturangan guards will not arrest them on behalf of the empire.

1. If a known criminal from Sigrogana tries to jump over to Chaturanga and go 'haha you can't arrest me here', it's highly unlikely that Chaturanga won't go after them, especially when it's very much possible for said criminal to repeat their offenses on their soil.
2. If Chaturanga didn't go after them, the Empire can put pressure on them. Not to mention the fallout that can come from harboring what would likely be a serious criminal, which is twice as bad for a nation that's focused on being neutral to the rest of the Great Six.

Imperial guards will not jump continents, but if you're expecting for the rest of the Great Six to completely ignore the crimes you did on another continent's soil, think again.

(No, this doesn't mean petty crimes are going to ruin you in every nation forever, nor is it completely impossible to slip out into another nation while keeping yourself out of trouble.)

I would appreciate a response to my post as well, if possible.
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Re: The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

Postby LatentSparrow » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:37 pm

Snake wrote:I know Papa Chaos has a busy life, but he needs to take a minute or ten from his time to finish his jail, create the laws (or just reveal what we charge people for) for each country, and fling out in a specific thread so people can have a reference and at last, FINES/COMMUNITY SERVICES/JAIL SERVICE/AMPUTATIONS (or severe physical punishments that leave one badly beaten for quite a while). The money earned/services done/punishments handled are used to pay for the damages done, not to give a golden chain for the Commander or satisfy his sadistic tendencies. (idk Gee tho)


This is what I'm saying here. The fact that there is no set way on how to handle situations, leaving people to go off horrid opinions for judgement calls. So instead of people who do the same crime getting different sentences, they get punished under the same circumstances. I'm surprised this wasn't even put in place at the start of it all.

This is also the reason why I think there should be IC training under someone who is assigned the position to teach upcoming guard members how to behave under certain situations to be in line with the law. It'd drive out the thought of people thinking that new guard members should be going to the experienced ones for training and tips. Everyone would get a equal dose of training (Or, Just do what Kunai said and make a reference that people could look at, but it'd take out the RP factor of it all. The only problem I have with this is that the PC Guard would technically just know the law though an OOC forum topic). A lot of people are busy to do something like this, but then again, there are a lot of people who have guard PCs that never get on them, and this could be a reason to get on them.

There also could be more jobs within the fort, like people who are meant to serve ones jailed. As in, basic interactions for RP. Not really necessary, but it came into my mind just now.

Another question, are guards able to get fired from their positions, or are they just perfect and everything they do is unaccounted for? I've never seen a guard lose a position for making bad calls unless they step down from the position. If they're getting paid, then there should always be the possibility that they get fired if they're doing a bad job.
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Re: The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

Postby catabur » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:20 am

Noxid wrote:Like dude if you came to some remote corner of Lispool alone to investigate some crime accept that you fucked up. But nah gotta win bruh I'll press my magic button that tells everyone in the guard chat to get you ass over here for some fun 6 vs 2 pvp


A very poor example since something like bandits have been made into ice popsicles and then something called Church Knights could easily fuck up your day. And even then, the only time back-up is used is in Sigrogana. Otherwise, guards request other people to come and assist them with some sort of investigation.

LatentSparrow wrote:It'd drive out the thought of people thinking that new guard members should be going to the experienced ones for training and tips.


Who'd they go to beside the experienced members for training? I mean, I'm sure you're saying that there should be people designated to only train. But the best people for that job are experience guards. As much as I would want to make a seventh guard for the GUARDS.

LatentSparrow wrote:A lot of people are busy to do something like this, but then again, there are a lot of people who have guard PCs that never get on them, and this could be a reason to get on them.


No motivation and a busy schedule keep people away from their guards. I don't think training that would get dull after the first go would solve that.

LatentSparrow wrote:Another question, are guards able to get fired from their positions, or are they just perfect and everything they do is unaccounted for? I've never seen a guard lose a position for making bad calls unless they step down from the position. If they're getting paid, then there should always be the possibility that they get fired if they're doing a bad job.


Yes, but there has to be an obvious reason for why they shouldn't become a guard. A lot of reasons are OOC-filled like "I don't like how this guard handled this situation!" or "The guard arrested my favorite character!"

I mean, if you (the general you) don't like how it's run, there's always applying to be a guard yourself to fight against the corrupted system from the inside out, or whatever. It's far from a hard thing to do since there's so many guards, reducing your chance to claim that the guard players are apart of some huge circlejerk, and Chaos tends to give people a chance if he believes they can be decent (even for god awful applicants like Barra). And then you, too, can be motivated for the first month or so, before being shit on and having to deal with stupid shit while getting pings at midnight and 5 o'clock in the morning on a workday and be called shit for not responding to it.

(not to mention that I tend to bitch about decisions a lot)
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Re: The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

Postby Noxid » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:12 pm

catabur wrote:
Noxid wrote:Like dude if you came to some remote corner of Lispool alone to investigate some crime accept that you fucked up. But nah gotta win bruh I'll press my magic button that tells everyone in the guard chat to get you ass over here for some fun 6 vs 2 pvp


A very poor example since something like bandits have been made into ice popsicles and then something called Church Knights could easily fuck up your day. And even then, the only time back-up is used is in Sigrogana. Otherwise, guards request other people to come and assist them with some sort of investigation.


Except the example I gave actually happened. A guard came investigating a report once and when we refused to come with him *click* meta-called backup (Except guards are allowed exception to this rule for some reason) and in this example the Church Knights wouldn't have even been a factor as we weren't obviously committing crimes there.

While on the topic of teaching new guards or setting up proper guidelines. It is very much possible, security members on bloody SS13 manage it so I don't understand how we couldn't get it done. I'm not bothered if the laws are unjust ICly just that they are there because right now one guard might threaten an arrest for you arguing with someone in town while another will let someone go with a warning for sexual assault it's bonkers.

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Re: The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

Postby Lolzytripd » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:47 pm

Noxid wrote:
catabur wrote:
Noxid wrote:Like dude if you came to some remote corner of Lispool alone to investigate some crime accept that you fucked up. But nah gotta win bruh I'll press my magic button that tells everyone in the guard chat to get you ass over here for some fun 6 vs 2 pvp


A very poor example since something like bandits have been made into ice popsicles and then something called Church Knights could easily fuck up your day. And even then, the only time back-up is used is in Sigrogana. Otherwise, guards request other people to come and assist them with some sort of investigation.


Except the example I gave actually happened. A guard came investigating a report once and when we refused to come with him *click* meta-called backup (Except guards are allowed exception to this rule for some reason) and in this example the Church Knights wouldn't have even been a factor as we weren't obviously committing crimes there.

While on the topic of teaching new guards or setting up proper guidelines. It is very much possible, security members on bloody SS13 manage it so I don't understand how we couldn't get it done. I'm not bothered if the laws are unjust ICly just that they are there because right now one guard might threaten an arrest for you arguing with someone in town while another will let someone go with a warning for sexual assault it's bonkers.



I think in this moment guard players need to understand they aren't some administrative force to punish the badguy players, they are an RP force meant to simulate a immersive guard system. So when they break the immersion by calling back up and breaking the meta rules they become no better than

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Re: The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

Postby Snake » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:43 am

Except if and when it's done in the middle of Cellsvich, in broad daylight and to a child.
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Re: The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

Postby catabur » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:00 pm

Noxid wrote:
Except the example I gave actually happened. A guard came investigating a report once and when we refused to come with him *click* meta-called backup (Except guards are allowed exception to this rule for some reason) and in this example the Church Knights wouldn't have even been a factor as we weren't obviously committing crimes there.


I have no idea what you're talking about as all previous Lispool investigations have been noted and they were together before travelling to Lispool. I'd rather have exact names/dates/whatever, before believing that this unsanctioned investigation happen and you never bothered talking to the guards OOCly about it or GMs.

And SS13's sci-fi roundbased system is a tad different beast than the medieval-fantasy of SL2.
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Re: The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread

Postby Noxid » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:54 pm

catabur wrote:
Noxid wrote:
Except the example I gave actually happened. A guard came investigating a report once and when we refused to come with him *click* meta-called backup (Except guards are allowed exception to this rule for some reason) and in this example the Church Knights wouldn't have even been a factor as we weren't obviously committing crimes there.


I have no idea what you're talking about as all previous Lispool investigations have been noted and they were together before travelling to Lispool. I'd rather have exact names/dates/whatever, before believing that this unsanctioned investigation happen and you never bothered talking to the guards OOCly about it or GMs.

And SS13's sci-fi roundbased system is a tad different beast than the medieval-fantasy of SL2.


This particular example happened like 2-3 years ago so that might explain why you have no record. We brought it up OOCly too at the time but were told that guards have a button on their badge that can just call for backup.

Also the fact SS13 is roundbased is why its amazing that they manage this yet we don't. Also you say it's medieval fantasy but that is never RP'd really ingame (a topic for another day) so theme doesn't really have much to do with it in my opinion. Honestly Lolzy summarised it better than I can. I just want guards to feel immersive.


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