Aptitude and builds

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Yashatari
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Aptitude and builds

Postby Yashatari » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:04 pm

Who here uses Apt in their builds? I'll assume everyone does unless your that one person that is concerned about overload, which i doubt anyone is THAT concerned about it.

Everyone typically goes to 49/50 apt on every one of their builds.
You get about a near double return for investment, 6 investment for 11 return.
I've also heard rumors about the level cap being raised to 70 soon, which i have mixed feelings about.

My suggestion today is simple, Let's fix Apt.
Step one, Make it so you can't invest Apt, However it would remain visible and would still give the xp boost.
Step two, Make it so that apt = level
Now i know what you are thinking, What about the races that dont want Sanctity boosted, Well i've thought of that as well.
Step three, Make it so that Apt increases the soft cap using the same math it currently uses.
Ie, every 6 apt increases soft cap of all other stats by 1, instead of actually raising them.

After this adjustment, At level 60 you've increases all other soft caps by about 8-10.
Since it'd be = to level, This would save those 50 points you'd normally invest into this Very meta stat.

And now, What is the communities opinion of this idea?

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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Rendar » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:07 pm

I mean. Aptitude used to be a worse offender than it is now. That isn't to say it isn't something almost every single build should invest in unless you're pulling a super janky / Gimmicky / Sawrock build. It's just a REALLY good stat that, if you end up looking over, will probably screw you. Simply because, while yes 48 scaled apt is good (requiring anywhere between 47-50 poitns invested into it).. it gives you a lot of stats back. Even if they aren't stats you use, like GUI / SKI for me.. you'll nab skill slots out of it. Cel builds? +DEF/RES is always useful. Etc etc.

It's kinda sucky, but that's just how it is with the introduction of this near-necessity stat.
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Spoops » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:19 pm

Lets not change the stat that everyone uses in their current builds, this has been discussed before.

Its much too late to change anything about it.

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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Chaos » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:07 pm

I'd rather just get rid of Aptitude altogether. Its only purpose is to mimic 4 SPL with restrictions (which is pointless when Skills and Equipment mean FAR more to a character than pure stats), and the Exp boost it gives can easily be compensated by boosting numbers on other sources of +EXP Gained.
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Sawrock » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:10 pm

I see the fact that it's a near-universal stat to be a problem, not a benefit.
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Spoops » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:12 pm

If you wanted to even out the loss of aptitude you'd have to figure out a way to give everyone 45-50 stat points.

If you were to ditch aptitude entirely, I'd suggest bumping up SPL to 4, then introducing a new level cap, other than that, I don't see a non-catastrophic way to ditch the concept entirely.

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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Snake » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:35 am

I disagree with this thread. If Aptitude was not meant to be, it wouldn't be planned and added in the Great Reckoning, or instantly received negative feedback on its implementation, and as said, it's a tad lot late to think about changing how it works, no?
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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Rendar » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:16 am

Aptitude has been a problem stat since it's creation.. and "Tad too late to change how it works" is really irrelevant to the matter.

If something is problematic to game design, you change it. It doesn't really matter that "It's integral to the system now, so we can't!"

Removing it will resolve a lot of things (though some races will need to get something extra to compensate; looking at you humans).
Galeon Zviera's turn.
Critical Hit! Galeon Zviera attacks Jammer with Floating Red Letter and hits them!
Jammer takes 8420 Pierce damage.

Tiny Fawn Girl recovered 8550 HP.
Isabelline recovered 8550 HP.


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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Yashatari » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:56 am

id be fine with removing it entirely. even if we dont bump the SPL to 4. As i said everyone uses it in every build. Its really dumb to have a stat that works in every build that is usefull to everyone. will is only usefull to mage types, str to melee types, def/res to tanks, ski/cel usefull to alot of builds but not every build. Apt is used in EVERY build tho, Possibly even on low sanc racials as im sure they dont mind losing that immunity to charm if sanc below 10, Simply because the return is so high.

It's a dumb stat, It NEEDS to be reworked, Period!
On a 0 Apt race, you're spending 50 points to get +8 on all other stats, Thats 50 for 88, 38 extra stats effectly making everyone level 71.
The only time you don't use it is on builds that dont need alot of stats, or races that dont want sanc.
Even if you are a quality build that doesnt use apt, thats still 210 vs 248(38 diff/return from apt).
Math wise, This is really good and shouldnt be passed up by ANYONE.
It NEEDS to be reworked, You're either oblivious to it's returns. New to the game and don't understand.
OR you simply don't want it to be changed since it benefits you and you dislike change because you'll have to put effort into redoing math.

Unless you can tell me why it shouldn't be changed with detail, math, and reason, Don't post.
Looking at you snake.
*Coughs*

As for spoops, As i said in the initial post, Since you wouldnt be investing into apt after the change, that would save you those 50 points you're concerned about in your post.
"If you wanted to even out the loss of aptitude you'd have to figure out a way to give everyone 45-50 stat points."
"Since it'd be = to level, This would save those 50 points you'd normally invest into this Very meta stat."

Deciding not to change something just because it's been that way for a while is stupid and lazy.
"I broke my leg a month ago, I'd rather not fix it." Sheer stupidity to not fix a problem, So i'll say it again.
APTITUDE NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!!

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Re: Aptitude and builds

Postby Chaos » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:48 pm

Snake wrote:I disagree with this thread. If Aptitude was not meant to be, it wouldn't be planned and added in the Great Reckoning, or instantly received negative feedback on its implementation, and as said, it's a tad lot late to think about changing how it works, no?

Except it did receive criticism when it was released, but said criticism was met with 'Because 4 SPL is too much'. As you can clearly see with today's meta, that argument holds no water in a state where your character's arsenal defines them more than their stat power. You're really gonna need to drop the roundabout reasoning and get specific if you want to convince me that Aptitude helps more than it hurts.

Nor are we in a position where removing APT will wreck everything: The most people will lose (assuming a system to recoup them isn't in place) is stat points, which can easily be regained by a stat reset or a Legend Extension. There's no element that needs to be (re)moved, no weapons/skills that scale off of APT, or anything else that would make APT's removal hurt more than a self-contained benefit that can be easily resolved.

Based off of calculations I did involving APT vs higher SPL in the past, just bumping up SPL to 4 will solve the problem nicely. The only 'losers' in this equation are Humans and Hyattr, which can be solved by moving those 4 points into other stats.
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye


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