I spy with my regular eye

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A place for all your ideas and woes regarding game balance.
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PantherPrincess
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I spy with my regular eye

Postby PantherPrincess » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:30 pm

Can skills such as Smoke Screen and White Prison make it so you cannot target people if they are not in your view. Currently regardless of either of those skills, you can pretty much aim past any obstacle with any skill. It doesn't feel like you're getting the most out of these sorts of skills.
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Spoops
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Re: I spy with my regular eye

Postby Spoops » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:48 pm

With only 2 ways to currently get rid of it, I'm just worried this would turn it into the best defensive tool in the game, especially making Archer life hard in any fight that happens to have a tactician or spellthief in it.

I'd incur a hit penalty instead for trying to fire a spell or basic attack through it.

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PantherPrincess
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Re: I spy with my regular eye

Postby PantherPrincess » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:56 pm

Spoops wrote:With only 2 ways to currently get rid of it, I'm just worried this would turn it into the best defensive tool in the game, especially making Archer life hard in any fight that happens to have a tactician or spellthief in it.

I'd incur a hit penalty instead for trying to fire a spell or basic attack through it.


I do agree with it being too much for archers but honestly a hit penalty is nothing for an archer although it does make sense for smoke screen. Maybe white prison alone can do non targeting past your view. But I really think some sort of penalty or buff is needed because as it stands theres not much to do with these skills besides lay them out and watch as people ignore them.
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Re: I spy with my regular eye

Postby Eldecrok » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:01 am

Putting aside that I use archer, I enjoy being able to hit things with massive range in PVE cases, so I'd imagine that both PVE and PVP would be changed at the same time, thus allowing me not to warp through walls. Feelsbadman. Speaking of warping, how would this affect skills like blind/haunting, which presumably use the void to a small extent to pass through obstacles?

On the plus side, if this is able to be implemented... it would be fun. Though, some skills shouldn't be affected, like the Fairy's Lance, Needle, Etc. Especially on Smoke Screen. Though, Needle might break White Prison on one hit? Speaking of White Prison, does anyone know if it reacts to push movements? That's be important.

Lastly, skills like changing ranges such as Cyclone Spear and Crystal Rose are likely going to be harder to deal with, cause they would be reduced to a range inside the smoke screen. In addition, Crystal Rose would stop a few tiles away from a White Prison if I understand your suggestion correctly, due to not being able to go through the Prison Wall.

Overall, while this could be a fun idea, there's a lot... A LOT to consider.

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PantherPrincess
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Re: I spy with my regular eye

Postby PantherPrincess » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:44 am

Eldecrok wrote:Putting aside that I use archer, I enjoy being able to hit things with massive range in PVE cases, so I'd imagine that both PVE and PVP would be changed at the same time, thus allowing me not to warp through walls. Feelsbadman. Speaking of warping, how would this affect skills like blind/haunting, which presumably use the void to a small extent to pass through obstacles?

On the plus side, if this is able to be implemented... it would be fun. Though, some skills shouldn't be affected, like the Fairy's Lance, Needle, Etc. Especially on Smoke Screen. Though, Needle might break White Prison on one hit? Speaking of White Prison, does anyone know if it reacts to push movements? That's be important.

Lastly, skills like changing ranges such as Cyclone Spear and Crystal Rose are likely going to be harder to deal with, cause they would be reduced to a range inside the smoke screen. In addition, Crystal Rose would stop a few tiles away from a White Prison if I understand your suggestion correctly, due to not being able to go through the Prison Wall.

Overall, while this could be a fun idea, there's a lot... A LOT to consider.


Okay, where do I start. PvE would be untouched lol this would only affect PvP. Mobs cannot use any of the mentioned spells as they are from Spellthief and Tactician. Sitting there and hitting things map wide is exactly the reason why things like this should be implemented and is long overdue. This will actually make people think and be forced to move. It's not very logical that an archer wouldn't get a hit penalty through a smoke screen or people ignoring a huge wall in front of them. This wouldn't be groundbreaking as its just a spell which can be silenced or stolen or destroyed since white prison can be broken. As for the skills you mentioned they would just attack the wall instead if they aren't facing the enemy which I think is fair as it's not very hard to move around. Smoke screen is not a solid wall so they can crystal rose or whichever skill through it (which is already the case for both mentioned spells) however they shouldn't be able to land basic attacks or basic attacking skills easily and get a hit penalty (i.e. sniping with arrows or bullets from across the screen through a smoke screen thus avoiding the hit penalty altogether or using hanging or sidecutting across the map and etc.). It would just give these spells some major use. That said Smoke Screen should give a hit penalty to enemies who cannot see you and White Prison shouldn't allow people to target you if they simply cannot see you.
Last edited by PantherPrincess on Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eldecrok
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Re: I spy with my regular eye

Postby Eldecrok » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:31 am

I'm starting to see how this might be done, thanks ^^ Hope dev picks up... after trait rework

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Re: I spy with my regular eye

Postby Neus » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:23 am

It shouldn't let you target people who are outside of view already.

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Re: I spy with my regular eye

Postby WaifuApple » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:53 pm

I believe you should be able to at least shoot through smoke fields, with a debuff to hit... since it's not like you can't make a shot in the dark. It's much different with the wall though.
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PantherPrincess
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Re: I spy with my regular eye

Postby PantherPrincess » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:24 pm

I haven't tested it out again recently but from what I remember both are ignored when it comes to basic attacks or basic attacking skills and autohits as well. I will test it out later today and get back to you. But yes Smoke Screen should/is able to be shot through (right now there is no debuff though when aiming from afar) however I don't think White Prison should allow that and instead negate targetting against people who cannot see you.
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Re: I spy with my regular eye

Postby Spoops » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:26 pm

While for white prison, I think that shooting through it and definitely blinking through it (See my previous thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6238) shouldn't exactly be a thing, when it comes to smokescreen which cannot be destroyed by an easily accessible method (Basic attacking), I think that it should just incur the hit penalty on the skill itself for trying to shoot through it.


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