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Still trying to pretend I don't exist on Byond in general, but I felt a need to bring this up. Not necessarily related to the original discourse, but it's what your reply made me want to scream like this in a real-time autistic fit of rage.
Dev, have you ever considered that maybe people don't come forward with things about the GM because they're already so set up and used to the abuse and already know you aren't going to listen because of the way you try to understand things? Given that I'm already just up and quitting SL2, I won't make an attempt to sugar up my words in an attempt to have less of a reason to get banned for 'being rude' or what have you.

Time and time again, I tell everyone whenever they disagree with something or something wrong happens, "then go to Dev or a GM" and then get told no because they know all of you will say no or not care? Even I've asked questions about why X is tolerated or why X is happening and I basically get told that nobody comes forward. Because hey, unless you have about a mile worth of logs, then nobody fuckin' cares, aye? I can tell you about everything I've ever heard about the GMs, claims of abuse, bias, whatever, but nobody'll say anything because without any shred of evidence then it just doesn't exist and doesn't matter and so obviously fake right? Fucking. Wrong.

Hell, I can go up to a GM and say "Hey, I have no evidence of this happening because I don't want to be directly involved with some shitty ERPing lesbian player but I've had so many people say X has happened and they break rules when GMs aren't around so could you keep an eye out for them?" and then I'll just get told whatever generic answer and then nothing happens because I don't want to endanger myself nor my sanity to go and get proof that this player is breaking the rules. It's almost ingrained into the game's community that neither the GMs, nor Dev, give a real shit about the community. And the fact that you're basically saying "hey y'all overacting lil bitches lol" (a hyperbole, but that is what most people are going to take it as due to tone of voice) is showing that nobody can actually make a change. There's not even an attempt to appease everybody. Sure, why not take the same punishment to everyone, or hell let everybody vote? Instead of just sitting on your ass and saying "haha nah y'all salty".
I'm not saying you're really the one doing that type of attitude Dev, but when the hell do you ever actually play your own game or get to know anybody in your community? There's always been the fact that I've heard since the goddamn day I joined SL2 two years or so ago, that you especially don't play your game and are barely able to say the community is good or bad because all you do is come in, give asagos or say updates or whatever, and then leave. I'm not saying "lol dev isn't busy fucker he just sits in his basement and codes", because you have to be able to code everything and you probably have a job outside of the internet because living off donations is god awful. But you can't even take a day off or anything at some point to come and see how the game is doing? Come experience that "obviously fake" clique bullshit and how the only real place to get RP is at the arena. Because let me tell you, barely anybody goes and tries to RP with newbies or anyone outside of their friendgroup.

Now you can go "but kaaaaahllll i rp with people i don't know all the timmme waaaaaaaah" but you have to ask yourself. When was the last time you weren't AFKing at the arena and only replying when someone asks for a spar? When was the last time that you tried to sit in Cellsvich and RP? When really was the last time you RP'd with someone that wasn't a known player, seriously and not a "emote looks at, says nothing"? Some people go out of their way to RP with people who get no attention, and D.I./Sinclare/Vance met some really great people because of this. Saira, Airide, Franky, Tor, Gavvy, Graves, Elly, Floofie, and Gene when she was still alive on the internet. And I can admit I'm not innocent of accidentally ignoring new players either, but if people interact with me, I at least RP with them until our RP dies or they leave or if I have to leave. Social anxiety will do that to you, you know? But if you're making an attempt at it, you're genuinely doing some poor sap a favor and reaching out to someone others will ignore. Sitting at the arena with all your PVP friends dicks up your ass isn't a real way to go, and as much as GMs and Dev like to pretend it isn't real, you guys need to wake the fuck up and realise that happens everyday. Is it server-wide? No, not at all. But PVP is practically fucking required to RP with anybody at the arena, or you need to force conversation on someone and make things uncomfortable. PVP in SL2 is a fucking cancerous disease that's turned good people into shitlords, but hey, that isn't the topic I'm going so. Leaving it there? Good? Good.
But let's go back to what I was talking about earlier. I know Dyst /kinda/ plays and I know Sawrock does play, so he's kinda omitted from this. If anybody can tell me these, you can do that right ahead. Do we even know of any normal Chaos or Dev characters? I know Chaos used to have his guy, but did he /ever/ do anything but AFK? When was the last time we interacted with a GM ICly that wasn't via a GM event or generic guard AFKing/business? Because, Y'know, having a private character is fine, but the last time I suggested that to Slydria, he said him and Chaos don't do that kinda shit to know the community. So it's reasonable to say that the GM's don't play the game as much as they let on, nor as much as Dev cries that they do. Have we ever had a GM event I never got to hear any complaints about how bullshit it was? Lemme answer that! No, I've never heard of a single GM event that wasn't "shitty and bad". Time and time again I tell people not to go because they'll keep doing it anyways because they have some faith left that the event won't be a waste of time and shitty. It surely does make a lot of us feel like you don't listen when you rehash the same shit that everybody bitches about time and time again. Of course, off the topic of GMs not really knowing the community they're dealing with once more, so let's continue. It seems as though the GMs are practically basing who they like and dislike off of OOC, and then pour that into IC. Which hell, ignoring people you dislike OOCly in IC isn't that bad, it's rude but forgivable, but I've heard a few cases in the past where they're targeted more heavily because they do crazy/stupid stuff all the time, but never really offensive or ban-worthy stuff.

And, of course, there's always been dishonesty and bad business practices within the GMs. Of course, there's the fact of Dyst ignoring someone's player reports because that person was adament about trying to help the community not seem so bad with one of it's biggest issues, smacktalking behind my back in the SL2 channel about something she just made an assumption about, and having multiple events that waste people's time and/or turn out shitty to where Dyst just quits ([cough]Hot or Not & that Amiras bullshit few days back). Chaos saying he won't fire guards that never get on their guard characters and/or are just gone for extended periods of time because having a life outside of SL2 involves never being around for actual months at a time to where if I mention you to someone they go "who?" (did you think I deleted that PM? Because I didn't), and then getting shamed for a first time offence not once, not twice, but three times in GM channel (IIRC), when previously stating a few months back that y'all took that shit to Skype as to not disrupt the player and shame them (although, might I mention that was the answer to why Soapy never got in trouble via GM channel when he did?), Saw purposely misgendering a trans person because an elite player told them they were bad, Sly ignoring actual evidence of players being bad when I (and others, sometimes) send them (Remember, the German B sounds like 'SS' and making your RWBY Weiss playby's alias Weiß is bad, kiddies)... Due to my memory, I actually couldn't go on as much as I'd love to.

But if you really want to know why people don't come up to you with this kinda stuff? It's ingrained into a large portion of the community that you and the GMs will do aboslutely buttfuck nothing, and the fact you're practically saying "haha y'all overblowin this and being salty" is proof to that. Outside of the petition, I can't see anybody saying Egil needs to be not-punished-at-all and Sarah needs to be permabanned like saying, and even Bria admitted the description was rough and not as good as it should've been, but the point wasn't the description. Whoever was trolling the thing with fake signatures can suck my fucking ass. The revision of the GM team is different matter, for the most part, but hell. You wanted to fuckin' hear it? There you go. Sue me. Do what you will with whatever I said. Call me a faggot (haha jokes on you i'm a gay dude) or whatever the hell, because god knows I ain't dealin' with this no' mo'. I will not return to answer questions, and I'm probably just gonna go back to fading out of existence. But I know some people think of me as GM material, and respect my opinions and voice. SL2 is rotting, and it's not just one person's problem. The playerbase needs to group itself and the GM team needs to stop giving players a reason to believe they're getting ignored and shit on.

Make this double as my farewell post as well. As much as I know people more-or-less were neutral or didn't like my presence, I felt the need to let out all of my opinions before I left and say goodbye as well.
I only want to say sorry to Bria if I sounded rude in any case. I felt no need to try and censor myself or try to act like the perfect man.

Hello Cerrik, thank you kindly for replying to me in an equally civil manner, it means a lot and I'll attempt to respond with just as much civility.

Firstly, you mention the line in which I essentially type that everyone who is opposed to the petition is essentially talking trash about it. I sincerely apologize, since as I've stated to my response to Ranylyn, it is quite late and as a result, I'm most likely not typing what I mean. I more so meant that a fair amount of the people who are opposed to it have replied in a very ill-mannered way. I'm very impressed and proud of your neutrality and that you've been conveying your opinions with such maturity. My sincerest of apologies if you took this the wrong way.

As for the remainder of your reply, I understand and can only say that I have read through all of the logs, and that's simply how I personally apprehend them. The post was more so to try and show that both sides are in the wrong (Egil and Sarah, to be precise) in my opinion. I keep seeing fingers pointed at Romek, but I felt obligated to shine some light that neither of them are perfect. I do hope you understand.

Thank you very much Cerrik, have yourself a wonderful night... Or day.

P.S DON'T WORRY, I UNDERSTAND HTML STRUGGLES AS WELL. (Primarily because of my dyslexia, but that's alright!)

I'm very tired right now, so I won't be replying to everyone or every point. However, the claim that people are ignoring my apparent metagame and crucifying Sarah for her apparent metagame deserves a response.

Quote:Firstly, I’d like to make it clear that I misunderstood the nature of Romek’s ban from sparring at the arena. From what I understood, the ban disallowed Romek from sparring within the arena (as in, with NPCs). Since that warning was given, I have not used Tarson to fight within the arena. There were multiple times where I took fights away from the arena, and it was to avoid triggering certain guards that IC’ly have a poor relationship with Romek or whom Romek thought would watch eagerly for anything that could be construed as an illegal act and arrest him- not because I thought that I was banned from fighting on arena grounds. There were also a plethora of times where, since the warning, Romek sparred on arena grounds and infront of player guards that knew of the warning that didn’t say anything to him. Off the top of my head, the guards that left Romek alone to spar on arena grounds include Sarah, Kameron, Diz, and Spo. There were other times where guards asked him to take his fights elsewhere or otherwise leave, and I assumed that they were simply unwilling to deal with a potential mess created by a spar with Romek and I obeyed not because I understood the warning as a ban from fighting at all near the arena, but as a ban from arena fighting.

That is why Romek was going around and asking for a fight at 3 AM on a Saturday- not for the sake of ignoring NPC guards or just waiting until no guards were online, but because I genuinely did not think I was doing something wrong OOC’ly.

I think this is adequate enough to explain how I was not metagaming nor godmodding. If it isn't, then I'd like an explanation as to why.

Furthermore:

Quote:Starting with how I wished Romek's death. This is true, I will not deny it. I wanted, and indeed want Romek to be dead. I have nothing wrong with Egil. However, I want to make this crucially clear. I did not make Remiel attack Romek knowing he would be arrested. I did not, in fact, make Remiel attack Romek because of my own apparent hatred towards him.

Remiel had her own agenda with him. She hates Romek with a passion, because of how he treated her and her friends. She is a person that holds grudges very easily, and her wrath is something that can easily be earned.

Romek briefly planned to do something of a violent nature to Delphia for a few OOC days before the plan dissolved and was given up. However, it was kept between a few people IC'ly; this leads me to an important question: Do the reasons that Sarah stated as the motivations behind what Remiel did- which is electrocute an ordinary human with enormous amounts of focus- fit the claim that Remiel simply wanted to hurt Romek over him taunting them, or does it lend credence to the claim that Sarah's OOC desire to kill Romek leaked into her IC actions?

Beyond that, I am willing to accept that she made an honest mistake in bringing her guard along with Psych's, since it was very early in the morning and no other guard responded to the call for backup. I also agree that I cannot conclusively confirm that metagrudging occurred. However, the possibility is not entirely dismissable- not in the least. I feel that it is plausible enough to be considered by Dev while he's dealing with this.

Thank you for remaining civil and contributing positively to the conversation, Cerrik/Bria/Floofie/etc

@Clockworkers Doll.

As presumptuous as this will sound... I believe I'm the antithesis of most problems you've stated. I refuse to touch the arena, I RP with almost everyone I come across, and I don't have any trouble at all. I do RP with the strangers and I make damned sure I don't stick to my friend groups. As I once said: No one will RP outside the arena until y'all actually stop RPing at the arena. You need to be the change you desire and I've always tried to do that. (I'm not saying my character is super popular, but a lot of people have RPed with Valyrie and I've touched the arena maybe 5 times this year.)

I've had almost every issue I needed resolved through GMs and I suggest people talking to them when you have your issue. If people aren't... that's not really the GMs fault anymore. Don't be so scared and say something.

As for events... I love Dyst events, I try to attend as many as I can because they're a blast.

The rest of the rant is based off experiences that ocurred where it was too old for me to comment on.

"Floofie" Wrote:Hello Cerrik, thank you kindly for replying to me in an equally civil manner, it means a lot and I'll attempt to respond with just as much civility.

Firstly, you mention the line in which I essentially type that everyone who is opposed to the petition is essentially talking trash about it. I sincerely apologize, since as I've stated to my response to Ranylyn, it is quite late and as a result, I'm most likely not typing what I mean. I more so meant that a fair amount of the people who are opposed to it have replied in a very ill-mannered way. I'm very impressed and proud of your neutrality and that you've been conveying your opinions with such maturity. My sincerest of apologies if you took this the wrong way.

As for the remainder of your reply, I understand and can only say that I have read through all of the logs, and that's simply how I personally apprehend them. The post was more so to try and show that both sides are in the wrong (Egil and Sarah, to be precise) in my opinion. I keep seeing fingers pointed at Romek, but I felt obligated to shine some light that neither of them are perfect. I do hope you understand.

Thank you very much Cerrik, have yourself a wonderful night... Or day.

P.S DON'T WORRY, I UNDERSTAND HTML STRUGGLES AS WELL. (Primarily because of my dyslexia, but that's alright!)

No worries on the misrepresentation! I take a healthy amount of precaution when someone says something accusatory but I also leave plenty of room to let them say 'Oops, my bad!' and I hold no hard feelings afterward, so like I said, no worries!

I do understand, my stance isn't that only Egil metagamed, I think Sarah is in the wrong for arriving to the scene on her guard. I, personally, still do not find the logs sufficient proof as Purple's official statement is that she did not let it affect her. I would be lying if I said I didn't wish for certain characters to die OOCly but that's never affected my RP once. I'm sure many people have been in a similar stance. So to reiterate: I also think they were both in the wrong, but I do not think Purple was for her grudge, only for her arrival on her guard character to her own arrest.

Quote: When was the last time you weren't AFKing at the arena and only replying when someone asks for a spar? When was the last time that you tried to sit in Cellsvich and RP? When really was the last time you RP'd with someone that wasn't a known player, seriously and not a "emote looks at, says nothing"?

- Answer to all: Two days ago, the last time I played. (And just about every time I play.)

One big reason I don't report more stuff to the GMs is because I've had it drilled into me by society that everyone despises whistleblowers. As in, I had teachers shame me in front of the class for telling on someone. But when I do, they always at least bring it up with the person in question and give a warning. (They don't usually tell me they did so, but I see it happen in game) Why? Because I bring proof. Without proof, it devolves into a he said/ she said argument. That said, the one time I didn't have proof, the GMs took me at my word, because I had always provided proof before and had never started anything with them over getting my way.

If anyone reading this really DOES have it so deeply ingrained that the GMs do nothing, I'd ask you to evaluate why. Are you on neutral terms with them, at least? Or do you argue with them and give them hell for doing their jobs?

That said, if you're so set on leaving, then I won't try to convince you otherwise. Take care.

@Egil

Oh, huh. Well, I don't have much reason to believe you're being dishonest about being genuinely unaware. I would say that I'm confused how that ban was misinterpreted and that should be addressed because I don't see why Romek would be banned from fighting NPCs for being aggressive towards other PC duelists. So, yeah... it would be important to clear up who told Romek he wasn't allowed to duel and how they explained it.

"Cerrik" Wrote:@Egil

Oh, huh. Well, I don't have much reason to believe you're being dishonest about being genuinely unaware. I would say that I'm confused how that ban was misinterpreted and that should be addressed because I don't see why Romek would be banned from fighting NPCs for being aggressive towards other PC duelists. So, yeah... it would be important to clear up who told Romek he wasn't allowed to duel and how they explained it.

Dyst's Guard, Megaera, gave out the ban and explained it to me. I don't remember exactly how it was worded, just how I interpreted it and how that interpretation was reinforced by how other player guards reacted to Romek fighting on arena grounds. I can understand why people would just settle for 'Egil is lying to try and escape consequences', though, and I won't fault anyone for assuming the worst of me.

"Cerrik" Wrote:@Clockworkers Doll.

As presumptuous as this will sound... I believe I'm the antithesis of most problems you've stated. I refuse to touch the arena, I RP with almost everyone I come across, and I don't have any trouble at all. I do RP with the strangers and I make damned sure I don't stick to my friend groups. As I once said: No one will RP outside the arena until y'all actually stop RPing at the arena. You need to be the change you desire and I've always tried to do that. (I'm not saying my character is super popular, but a lot of people have RPed with Valyrie and I've touched the arena maybe 5 times this year.)

I've had almost every issue I needed resolved through GMs and I suggest people talking to them when you have your issue. If people aren't... that's not really the GMs fault anymore. Don't be so scared and say something.

As for events... I love Dyst events, I try to attend as many as I can because they're a blast.

The rest of the rant is based off experiences that ocurred where it was too old for me to comment on.

You'd be one in a million, Cerrik. I suppose a portion of that rant is to acknowledge the overwhelming majority of individuals who don't do the same, and probably will never do the same. No one is innocent in that regard, though this can be tacked onto the call for action. RPing away from the arena is similar to pulling teeth right now: unnecessarily painful.

As said earlier, I know of so many people paralyzed at the thought of speaking to admins or Dev for essentially the reasons Kyle mentioned. They're not approachable entities/ people/ etc. since most of everything seems to be swept under a rug. Maybe they aren't? Who knows? It's never really evident.

I could criticize Dyst events for various reasons, and probably will in a final post.

I seem to be the only one who thinks it's painful to RP away from the arena. Everyone says that, but the worst RP experiences I've had all occurred in the arena. I love RPing and meeting new players in Cellsvich, I try to show them there's plenty of people around outside of the arena, because frankly, there is. I don't like the arena because player's desire to become the best PvPer also directly coincides with their character's desires, and if this entire topic has highlighted something... it's that you should never cross IC and OOC. It's the primary reason why I avoid the arena. (Sawrock and I had a very lengthy argument and neither of us left angry at each other, it was completely civil and great food for thought.)

There's a GM Chat channel on the discord and people are getting answers all the time. More than that, I've asked Dyst, Sly, Chaos, and Sawrock things in PMs and every one of them have satisfied my questions. It's a matter of just trying.

If you're referring to CE events, I have only been to one. I'm referring to Dyst GM events, namely the bog dog storyline, which was a BLAST to be apart of.

(Edit: Added the part about Sawrock)