EDIT: You deleted your post while I was replying to it, Kameron.
The vast majority of the playerbase is wrong. If a vampire is played properly, the 75% healing reduction is incredibly, hugely crippling.
Not only can a properly-roleplayed vampire never use Silvermists in places where people might see because it might out them, but they can't even party with healers because those healers' AoE heals will heal the vampire for less than the rest of the party, which will out them.
Furthermore, any character, regardless of race, can equip massive Dark Resist, as it's the easiest available resist to get.
Assuming maximum rolls on these items' resistances where applicable, between 35% demonsilk voidwalkers, 30% blue iron shield (don't think they drop in carapace, +5% more if they do), 15% Carapace Brightray Plate, and a 5% stamp, that's 85% (or 90% depending on whether blue carapace shield is a thing) Dark Resist.
And this is before you take SAN into account, before you take into account the potential for demonsilk/carapace accessories, or sayakana...
There is nothing wrong with vampires' Dark Resist being where it is. There is nothing wrong with Lunar Lunatism being where it is.
The charm is necessary to counteract the existence of Exorcism enchantments, and if you're really worried about charm, you can be a Magick Gunner.
The fear and hesitation are non-issues because Bravery exists and Braveheart exists and Red Cape exists.
"Esther" Wrote:The vast majority of the playerbase is wrong.
I'm getting tired of this attitude within your posts, please don't post if you are this conceited.
A bit more on topic, I still think its more fair to just tally down the dark resistance, a race with 60%+ light weakness would get pretty rocked really fast.
The Dark Resist doesn't need to decrease and the Light Weakness doesn't need to increase. Everything that a vampire gets as a benefit is counterable, but their healing reduction is uncounterable, and their susceptibility to the Exorcism enchantment is only reduced by 1/3 of its default value by the existence of Bright Darkness. The Charm effect on Lunar Lunatism is supposed to make up for the rest of it, but even that's counterable by certain classes, and people are begging for an item to do that too.
Esther, your posts (when not something entirely off topic-not that they aren't often both) clearly and consistently show complete and total bias toward your vampire character, and given your apparent lack of ability to realize or even consider that fact, one can only pray Dev finds your opinions as important as the rest of us do.
I expect to be reported for this, again.
That being said, here's all the input I have left: equipping a full set of gear to nullify a single element is a far cry from passively gaining immunity to it as a side effect of the strongest, if most limiting racial ability in the game, so no, it isn't "fine".
Besides, if dark resistance is so easy to come by, what part of this isn't fair? You'll be immune to it with or without this skill being tuned down to reasonable levels.
"Exxy" Wrote:Although I'm tempted to say Vampires need more than just a nerf to Darkness Resist, increasing the ratio to 1:5 or 1:6 (Resist per Essence) would be a nice place to start.
Edit: I'm a bit confused how it currently adds up to 74% Resist (I get 66.6--% with the current 1:3 ratio, 40% Resist in the 1:5 ratio and 33.3--% with a 1:6 ratio).
Anyone want to clarify this point?
"Neus" Wrote:Anyone want to clarify this point?
My apologies if I was unclear:
"Exxy" Wrote:Although I'm tempted to say Vampires need more than just a nerf to Darkness Resist
They don't fit in well with the other Races and how they play their strengths. You have too much that's too good for the price you pay (you cannot justify a weakness to Light for it all, not just meaning this in reference the Darkness Resist. I mean their Charm Strength and their on-hit Hesitation Infliciton (both = Scaled SAN), their RP Immunity to death in 99-out-of-99 situations. The fact they're the only Race who gains a bonus that matters from their bonus WIL (from Sanguine Crest specifically, refer to my recent Lupine thread if you'd like to know more of why this irks me).
These are the MAJOR things that need changing (the one about WIL bonus from Sanguine Crest --outside-- of battle, where you can heal and actually have it count instead of it just being a higher cap and reduced percentage (I.E. you have 50/100 FP, which is 50% FP and then trigger your Lupine Racial which bumps it to 50/105, or 47.6% - this is more impactful when it's with bigger numbers, like +10 WIL/+50 FP at 25% HP on a 40 SAN Lupine who typically has a low FP cap).
This is something more Races who have gained Wil from Racial Skills should have.
"Exxy" Wrote:Increasing the ratio to 1:5 or 1:6 (Resist per Essence) would be a nice place to start.
This was in response to prior posts, please refer to the first three (?) posts in the thread. If it needs to be said, I meant only Darkness Resist when I said this.
"Exxy" Wrote:I'm a bit confused how it currently adds up to 74% Resist (I get 66.6--% with the current 1:3 ratio, 40% Resist in the 1:5 ratio and 33.3--% with a 1:6 ratio).
Slydria said the current Darkness Resist Vampires can gain from Essence alone is currently 74% yet the way I calculated it (200/3=x), it comes out to 66.6-repeating percent (66.66666%) IF we're going off the 50 Scale SAN Vampires that everyone likes.
The following bits were in reference to possible avenues of increasing the amount of Essence needed per point of Dark Resist.
EDIT: Thank you Sly, that makes a lot more sense now. I completely forgot to account for regular bonuses to Elemental Resists from SAN. Q_Q
Sorry for the confusion. You get 66% Darkness Resistance from Stillness, Darkness at 200 Essence. However, you also get 8% Resistances from how high your Sanctity is to do this. (Thus resulting in 74% from just the Sanctity investment.)
Vampires are difficult to compare to other races due to being the only one that has strengths offset by weaknesses to the degree it does. It has the greatest racial strengths, but at the same time it also has, by far, the greatest weaknesses. There are other races which, in certain builds, tend to be much better than effective vampire builds usually are, some of them with little-to-no weaknesses. Vampires are definitely one of the stronger races, but there are many I would consider overall on par with them.
The healing reduction really shouldn't be downplayed. Not when tankiness is all but mandatory in PvP, and damage is often taken slowly enough that healing is extremely strong. Not nearly so bad as pre-healing nerf, of course. However, it still locks vampires out of many extremely strong builds and item. They're the only race that doesn't have access to a 0 fp, 5 round cooldown 75% heal at the cost of 3m and one battle item slot, on every class combination. For context, depending on a vampire's hp and SAN, a PR-High Potion can be roughly as strong as Silvermists after the 75% reduction, without the costs. Taking an extra 50% damage from all basic attacks from a highly-common enchant is also often a highly crippling weakness.
As for their strengths, Lunar Lunatism requires inflict checks, the fear and hesitation levels can be roughly cut in half by talents, and the charm is removed by physical damage and can often by avoided by facing away from them at the end of the turn. Depending on one's build and one's opponent, it can range from highly overpowered to completely worthless. For better or for worse, like many other aspects of PvP, it's a matter of rock-paper-scissors. For the 'immunity to death', this applies to every PC regardless of race. The server rules prevent others from forcing you to kill your character unless you allow it, with the exception of GM-approved executions. From what I've seen, there's actually often more pressure on vampire players to allow their characters to be killed due to every single PC being an expert on how to kill vampires. At the end of the day, whether one turns to mist and reforms or shonens themselves through impossible to survive situations, they still end up equally not killed off. It's not something that should be taken into account for mechanical balance.
Now onto the actual point of the thread. I agree entirely that the darkness resist is far too much. No race should have that much innate resistance to a single element. That just results in skills and weapons using said element being far less useful and causing balance issues elsewhere. Not to mention, darkness resist does seem to be one of the most common resistances, and several classes are stuck with many skills that do dark damage (Hexer, Ghost, Void Assassin). I think that 1 dark resist/light weakness per 6 essence is a highly reasonable amount to change it to. However, I'm not so certain the race as a whole needs to be outright nerfed so much as 'tweaked'. Perhaps some poison resistance would be a good trade off for the darkness resistance (since it was confirmed poisons are ICly less effective against vampires)?
I have to disagree, while lunar lunatism requires inflict checks, With the bonus stats from sanguine crests on top of a high infliction build I've seen their status inflict go well above 200, well beyond any reasonable status resist.
That produces level 60+ fear charm and hesitation
Thats a 60+% to hesitate when you attack, a 60+% damage reduction and a 60+% that your ally will take the hit for the vampire instead, Aoe's and autohits aren't safe from this.
Vampires will never proc their light weakness because of the global resist they gain from san
Theres a trait vampires can take called brighter darkness that makes them more resistant to the holy enchantment.
The healing weakness is their only real downside, and they can counteract that by using a neato vampric weapon.
Scaled SAN can never be 60+. At hardcap, 80 becomes 60. The vast majority of builds have 40 SAN and stop there, while some go up to 52 so it scales down to 50, which produces an even 200 essence. I don't think anyone has ever hardcapped their SAN, even on a vampire. And quite frankly, with that much investment into a single stat? That's well-deserved.