Class-based drop table adjustments.

Class-based drop table adjustments. - Printable Version

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Class-based drop table adjustments. - Ranylyn - 04-27-2015

I made a new character purely to explore a "twinkless playthrough" so to speak. While I respected the old Stars*5 rule, it goes without saying that I know better than to try to change Dev's mind on things like this. (Monster dens, anyone?) So I tried to see how well it can go purely on your own merits.

It took a lot of patience, but I somehow managed to get to level 40. Without ever getting a single piece of gear my class combo (Arb/Ghost, so Bows/Guns/Swords/Axes/Spears, basically anything but Tomes, and no heavier than Medium Armor because Ghost) could actually USE. I was using gear from NPC Shops. "Oh, why don't you invest in crafting skills?" RP purposes, this character doesn't do that. Also, personal reasons, it's a goddamn bore to level those skills up to the point you can make anything worthwhile.

And don't get me started on trying to get anything from player shops anymore. Today's sample prices are....

[Image: bbcb9c181af7554668849a96139ab66b.png]

[Image: bbcb9c181af7554668849a96139ab66b.png]

And...

[Image: 7189d0f4fb1fdd64908d1a5a72f9e820.png]

That axe for 900? 25 Murai from the Arena. Exact same one. Damaged and not even repaired. For 36x the normal cost. 36x. And that was the cheapest shop in Cellsvich.

"Just get it RPly through someone else!" I'd like to point out one massive fallacy with that. My last character before this one was a Monk/MG. Their "guns" were not guns; they were bursts of Ki. Think hadoken or Kamehameha or whatever the hell floats your boat. I needed a Jackhammer, to function similarly to a Spirit Bomb from DBZ. As such, they would not ICly be seeking out a missile launcher, nor would they have any reason to go "Thanks for the weapon, now I can inexplicably do this other thing!" That would just be bad RP.

If we're no longer allowed to OOCly pass along items we'll never use on one character that are absolutely crucial to another character's concept and build, could we at least have drop biases geared towards our equipped classes? So we at least have a chance to get something we'd actually use?

EDIT: Oh, and don't get me started on trying to unlock hexer. At least weak Katanas/heavy armor/weak guns can be bought.

Re: Class-based drop table adjustments. - Mivereous - 04-27-2015

"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6853#p6853 Wrote:Ranylyn » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:03 pm[/url]"]While I respected the old Stars*5 rule,

I want to firstly make sure that you know this only applies for trading between characters, right? If you find it anywhere else, it's fair game.

On the topic of unlocking Hexer: Misplaced seems to be a low level Curse (Level 15 BDPs is where I start finding them), and I believe Rustic starts showing up around level 30.

That Axe there for 900, seeing as it has 4 Durability, was probably Rustic before this bug occurred. So please try to keep in mind, not everyone has gotten around to rechecking and restocking the shops after such event.

Talking with the owners of shopkeepers can get you a lower price, as most of the time the ridiculous pricing means, "Come talk to me for a better price so we can RP"; alternatively, you don't have to talk to them ICly to ask, you could explain what you're trying to do OOCly to make a bargain. If they don't want to bargain, then don't give them business. Also, maybe you should check for shops inside houses.

[Image: omsnC6o.png]

Re: Class-based drop table adjustments. - Ranylyn - 04-27-2015

1) Yes, I did indeed know that.

2) It being more common in level 15 BDPs doesn't change the fact that not everyone wants to level as an evoker, and you likely won't get it before level 20.

3) I thought that bug was fixed. Why keep the affected items so stupidly priced?

4) The "absolutely insane" prices, yes. Like my second screenshot. The first one, though?

5) I don't go into random people's houses for RP purposes. Who the hell roleplays as a random wanderer into peoples' houses? While those screenshots are indeed more pleasant than the bullcrap around Cellsvich, there's almost no point if they're not readily accessible/visible.

Re: Class-based drop table adjustments. - Mivereous - 04-27-2015

"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6866#p6866 Wrote:Ranylyn » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:44 pm[/url]"]2) It being more common in level 15 BDPs doesn't change the fact that not everyone wants to level as an evoker, and you likely won't get it before level 20.

Then level more as a Mage until you do. We get to LE to fix our problems later, not complain about them now.

"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6866#p6866 Wrote:Ranylyn » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:44 pm[/url]"]3) I thought that bug was fixed. Why keep the affected items so stupidly priced?

If you'd read the thread, Dev had no way of 'fixing' this bug. And as I said,

Quote:So please try to keep in mind, not everyone has gotten around to rechecking and restocking the shops after such event.

And likely won't for a while. Since you find it so tedious to simply craft something repeatedly, imagine having to take out your 100 shop items that glitched on you, and reprice each one of them accordingly. Just as tedious, just as annoying to do.

"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6866#p6866 Wrote:Ranylyn » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:44 pm[/url]"]4) The "absolutely insane" prices, yes. Like my second screenshot. The first one, though?

My response to 3 should answer this. Somehow, people over-value Rustic and such to the 2353456241th degree (Rebellious Spirits: Worth 250(guessing); Sells for 30k. Can't do much about that other than go ask them why). Also,

Quote:If they don't want to bargain, then don't give them business.

"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6866#p6866 Wrote:Ranylyn » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:44 pm[/url]"]5) I don't go into random people's houses for RP purposes. Who the hell roleplays as a random wanderer into peoples' houses? While those screenshots are indeed more pleasant than the bullcrap around Cellsvich, there's almost no point if they're not readily accessible/visible.

Some houses start as a lawn or garden area before you enter the actual house part, and are where some people keep their shops. You could as easily be walking past their house on the street, and see this impromptu ghetto steam-punk yard-sale. It's also acceptable to say, "Hey, I'm here OOCly to check for nice things to buy and help support your murai situation." Just like how you've complained that not everyone going to Law's End to break down something is there as a villain or victim.

Re: Class-based drop table adjustments. - Chaos - 04-28-2015

"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6857#p6857 Wrote:Mivereous » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:26 pm[/url]"]Talking with the owners of shopkeepers can get you a lower price, as most of the time the ridiculous pricing means, "Come talk to me for a better price so we can RP"; alternatively, you don't have to talk to them ICly to ask, you could explain what you're trying to do OOCly to make a bargain. If they don't want to bargain, then don't give them business.

There is no excuse for someone overloading their shop with ridiculous prices. A few items? Sure, if they're noted and actually worth the cost. At least half of your inventory? You've lost your damn mind and your potential customers. If all you're going to do is put up a shopkeeper with a bunch of extremely overpriced items for the purpose of getting people to RP bargaining with you, then use the Marketplace forum instead of cluttering up the stalls. Five digits is considered incredibly expensive by the game's typical economy anyways.

But more on topic.... Some kind of drop bias towards your equipped class would be nice.

Re: Class-based drop table adjustments. - Neus - 04-28-2015

"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6889#p6889 Wrote:Chaos » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:14 am[/url]"]
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6857#p6857 Wrote:Mivereous » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:26 pm[/url]"]Talking with the owners of shopkeepers can get you a lower price, as most of the time the ridiculous pricing means, "Come talk to me for a better price so we can RP"; alternatively, you don't have to talk to them ICly to ask, you could explain what you're trying to do OOCly to make a bargain. If they don't want to bargain, then don't give them business.
There is no excuse for someone overloading their shop with ridiculous prices. A few items? Sure, if they're noted and actually worth the cost. At least half of your inventory? You've lost your damn mind and your potential customers. If all you're going to do is put up a shopkeeper with a bunch of extremely overpriced items for the purpose of getting people to RP bargaining with you, then use the Marketplace forum instead of cluttering up the stalls. Five digits is considered incredibly expensive by the game's typical economy anyways.

But more on topic.... Some kind of drop bias towards your equipped class would be nice.

As much as you could consider it nice, I imagine there are an equal number of situations and people who would prefer to not have their RNG biased in one direction for a variety of reasons, and the amount it would have to be for this to be a noticeable effect is most likely 'too much'. So, I don't think the idea would work very well, practically.

Re: Class-based drop table adjustments. - Chaos - 04-28-2015

"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6893#p6893 Wrote:Neus » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:25 pm[/url]"]As much as you could consider it nice, I imagine there are an equal number of situations and people who would prefer to not have their RNG biased in one direction for a variety of reasons, and the amount it would have to be for this to be a noticeable effect is most likely 'too much'. So, I don't think the idea would work very well, practically.

Fair enough. What about some kind of 'side quest' that can give people who hit their first promotion relevant equipment to work with, though? Kind of like what DFO does when you hit an Advanced Class nowadays.

Re: Class-based drop table adjustments. - Neus - 04-28-2015

The laplaceNET boss hunting quests sort of fulfill this role already, although I know there are a couple of weapon types that don't have any representation in those, such as the bow.

Re: Class-based drop table adjustments. - Ranylyn - 04-28-2015

"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6889#p6889 Wrote:Chaos » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:14 pm[/url]"]There is no excuse for someone overloading their shop with ridiculous prices. A few items? Sure, if they're noted and actually worth the cost. At least half of your inventory? You've lost your damn mind and your potential customers. If all you're going to do is put up a shopkeeper with a bunch of extremely overpriced items for the purpose of getting people to RP bargaining with you, then use the Marketplace forum instead of cluttering up the stalls. Five digits is considered incredibly expensive by the game's typical economy anyways.

Thank you, Chaos. I've been saying this for awhile. When the first screenshot I posted is the cheapest one in Cellsvich, and that's one of the cheapest parts of the selection, (IIRC everything else was well into the several thousands) there's an issue. At that point, you're seriously just wasting peoples' time for a glorified trophy case they won't ever buy anything from.

For comparison, I had a character I managed to LE on and get back to 57 without ever dying, and barely spending any money at all (LB/GS, long term self sustaining, not even using Inns outside of arena grinding for her Kigal.) They barely had 20k mura after all that. (To be fair, a decent chunk of time was spent with Black Beasts, maybe she could have squeezed out another 10k grinding instead of repairing) And that's counting the original 1-60 as well. It would take a fairly considerable amount of grinding at level 60 just to afford a single item at prices like 50k. On average, by level 40, I might have 4k mura if I never died, and at those prices, you really can't buy jack all.

At least you can buy a halfplate in Dormeho to help with Arena Grinding for Excel weapons to replace what you bought from Pink at level 1. Doesn't make it any less stupid, but it's something.

Oh, and I just remembered: One time, someone in OOC exploded when someone bought a 5k item from their own shop just to mark it up to an absurd price in another one. So yeah. Some people ARE apparently paying these prices, due to Profiteering like this.

"Mivereous" Wrote:Then level more as a Mage until you do. We get to LE to fix our problems later, not complain about them now.

If you'd read the thread, Dev had no way of 'fixing' this bug. And as I said,

And likely won't for a while. Since you find it so tedious to simply craft something repeatedly, imagine having to take out your 100 shop items that glitched on you, and reprice each one of them accordingly. Just as tedious, just as annoying to do.

My response to 3 should answer this. Somehow, people over-value Rustic and such to the 2353456241th degree (Rebellious Spirits: Worth 250(guessing); Sells for 30k. Can't do much about that other than go ask them why). Also,
Quote:If they don't want to bargain, then don't give them business.

Some houses start as a lawn or garden area before you enter the actual house part, and are where some people keep their shops. You could as easily be walking past their house on the street, and see this impromptu ghetto steam-punk yard-sale. It's also acceptable to say, "Hey, I'm here OOCly to check for nice things to buy and help support your murai situation." Just like how you've complained that not everyone going to Law's End to break down something is there as a villain or victim.

1) No. No more "just level as X" bullshit. 3/4 of the game's classes basically go ignored because of people levelling as classes they won't even use at 60. It's an RP game, and it's terrible RP to just change your established style so drastically into your career. If you want to min/max on your last LE, that's one thing, but I'm not going to stay OOC for all that time, and if a character ICly needs a class for whatever reason, they should damn well be able to unlock the thing. LE isn't an excuse to make things unavailable.

2) As I recalled, Dev had no way of returning lost properties and such, but I was under the impression it was fixed since there are items with properties in the shops.

3) Pardon my question due to not having a shopkeep of my own yet, but can't you just take the shop down and put it back up to clear out all the stuff that won't sell, put the stuff that will back in, and go NPC what won't? Seems a lot faster than manually adjusting every price in there. Or does it not work that way?

4) Then they should make it known. For example, I made a post once (may have been on the old forums) about my front Gardens being open to the public. Granted, no one ever comes because Chaturanga, but you get the idea.

Re: Class-based drop table adjustments. - Sarinpa1 - 04-28-2015

So I can't decide prizes for things because someone doesn't like it being expensive.
Cool.

Also rebellious spirit is most certainly not worth a few rounds in a dungeon. 40k is very reasonable, due to the fact that once you have it, you have access to pretty much best weaponry avaible in most cases.

This whole suggestion feels redundant and quite the large pain in the ass. Just because you can't get lucky to find something or arrange that you get it from others, doesn't mean there's a fault in the game, but in you. It's a roleplaying AND community driven game. If you're going to get specific, I have rebellious weaponry, two t-shells for my tanks, good comcs for my mages, sharp carapace shotties for my gunners. How often do I grind? Not so much.

I don't see this thread going anywhere at all, heavily derailing into complaints about different stuff.

Perhaps setup a variety of the arena shop, where the mediocre stuff is avaible, but its equipment, not weapons. That's the best one could go about with these ideas.

Edit : remembered another example
I got 75k over a weekend with nothing but RP. Legimately.