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+--- Thread: Guns and crit rates (/showthread.php?tid=4391)
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Guns and crit rates - Autumn - 03-21-2017
Guns have absolutely abysmal critical rates base wise and generally gun users don't tend to critically strike anyone with decent crit evade, the average a gun gets when built for high LUC is generally 80%-90%, without much deviation either if you're not running a sniper rifle.
A couple suggestions to help guns catch up to the critical rates of conventional weapons such as fists, swords and bows.
1.) Keyshot applying to guns in addition to bows.
2.) New bullet slot weapon part that'd be spec'd for critical, that doesn't change the gun entirely like hellhound bullets, like:
Hollow Point Bullets - Will punch through a target's soft bits
+10 critical to unarmored foes, -5 critical per armor class up (So +5% critical vs light armor, 0% critical vs heavy armor)
and then some sort of downside.
I'd like to hear some suggestions too if people don't like these ideas.
Re: Guns and crit rates - Snake - 03-21-2017
Lucky Shell can strip someone of their crit evade by reducing the enemy's LUC. But again, single-shot shells are pretty lacking in this way. I think Keyshot for Guns (Halved effect if the gun has more than one round) would be enough of a tweak in this case.
Re: Guns and crit rates - Autumn - 03-21-2017
I don't think Lucky Shell is enough of a crit buff/crit evade debuff to matter much, on top of that, lucky shell has a way to be decreased now by just being hit, I think Keyshot being fully effective for multi shots is fine, actually it's really multi shots and shotguns that are really being paid attention to here, sniper barrel is easy life for single shots.
Re: Guns and crit rates - Sawrock - 03-21-2017
I think guns scaling on SKI and being ranged is an advantage enough, but that's just what I think.
Re: Guns and crit rates - Lolzytripd - 03-21-2017
Game has too much crit evade, the Crit vs crit evade stats ar 1:1 in ratio, theres an enchantment that gives flat 25% more, a class that gets a flat amount more,
We've been so busy trying to balance feelies around high crit rate classes that are supposed to be glass cannons that can't afford tank and durability, that anything without a +50 crit built into classes and buffs can't meaningfully or reliably crit in any scenario.
Re: Guns and crit rates - Egil - 03-21-2017
Critting with a non-rifle firearm can be pretty difficult, but I think it also depends on your class. If you buff your crit with Duelist or Rogue buffs, it can be significantly easier to chain crits--- and I only say this because dagger crits wouldn't be so intimidating if they came from someone who didn't have Void Assassin or Ghost equipped. So, perhaps instead of adding a new weapon part (even though I'd love to have more of these), maybe just having Keyshot apply to Guns also will be enough to satisfy this problem.
Re: Guns and crit rates - Fern - 03-21-2017
In my experience, I see a lot of people with guns almost never fail a critical hit whenever they run rogue or duelist. However they seem to lack crit-power when they're not using one of the mentioned.
In this case, I'd want to stick with Snake's idea of Keyshot being at half-effectiveness for multi-shot, while giving the full bonus to weapons with single rounds. I'm honestly afraid that everyone will start using Ryesers if they get the -full- bonus.
"Pack lightning resist" isn't a valid argument against that because of null shell, so yeah.
Re: Guns and crit rates - Snake - 03-21-2017
My only thumb down is at multi-shots, only because they have 'multiple' chances to hit a critical, let's use a Quickdraw here for example. Quickdraws repeat their attack 7-8 times. So your chances on hitting a critical are increased by default since you're trying to land a critical multiple times.
Single shot? Nah, same as a bow, same as a sword. Only one hit and deal with it. And 'those' are the ones who need to be checked right now. Though I also agree with Sawrock. Why should ranged weapons that never scale from STR and ignore armor get the same treatment of melee weapons in this regard? We already have Bows for ranged weapons that hit hard.
Shotguns? I question WHY aren't they in the 'Increases Critical Chance' tree. You know, Shotgun (the weapon) can very well be like a Stinger, or a Wo-Dao, in this regard. But this is (probably) a topic for another thread.
Plus, a single buff to guns and everybody will dart back to Magic Gunner like leeches, and we don't really want everyone going Gunner now and revert SL2 to Call of Duty: Loli Ops the way it was before Reckoning, right? Eff me if MG becomes meta again.
Re: Guns and crit rates - Autumn - 03-21-2017
you also have multiple chances to miss a critical, the only difference between hitting a critical and not hitting a critical between stuff like katana and spears and multi shot guns is that multishot guns will not do as much damage as the aforementioned if all of their shots do not critically strike.
I don't think you two (Fern, Snake) have ever run into people running even decent crit evade as a gun build, and the problem isn't that there's too much crit evade because swords and axes and fist weapons can catch up to people wanting to build crit evade, no problem, it just takes a bit of effort and the right weapon parts.
The issue with guns is their scaling is ass, their critical damage is bad and even their critical rates are low, the only exception to this is excel sniper for it's critical chance and chargability, and shotguns because they straight up just get +25 damage from their mastery.
Re: Guns and crit rates - Lolzytripd - 03-21-2017
Perhaps buffing multishot guns a bit
higher base crit damage, weapon power isn't divided between rounds (scaled attack still is) and maybe keyshot for guns(even though there are attempts at non MG gun builds)