Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball....

Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - Printable Version

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Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - KhalidtheGrey - 01-13-2015

I've kinda been wondering lately why classes such as kensei. void assassin, and the other melee DPS classes... don't have that much DPS potential, mainly when compared to things such as an evoker. I'm mainly bothered by the issue what getting cut in half by a katana doesn't hurt nearly as bad as even a mid level AoE from an evoker, or LB, or anything else really. From a purely balance point of view, shouldn't a single-targetting swordsmen be able to do roughly the same damage as an AoE in an average fight? (which in SL2 is hitting ~3 targets, except in crazies) Couple ways come to mind to balance that out, nerf AoE, or buff physical damage. Anyway, I'm kinda just musing here, something to talk about.

Re: Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - Soapy - 01-13-2015

Weapon power + STR > Spell power + WIL.
Add in crits, dagger bonuses and so on.

Mages tend to spend more turns buffing than fighting.

[Image: kRPMELk.png]

This may have something to do with it.

Re: Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - Rockabye - 01-13-2015

That's because people have ridiculous ways of role-playing melee combat. If you really got cut in half you would be dead. A real sword fight would consist of lots of blocks/parries, and direct hits that aren't decisive would be rare. If you're envisioning cutting your enemy in half when they're still capable of fighting, then personally I think it's your perception that's off. On the other hand, you can't exactly block a giant fireball with a weapon. So then why are you doing 50 damage when you attack? You could have scratched or grazed them, or they could be feeling the impact from the collision despite having done their best to block the attack. But no, you are not "cutting them in half," at least not until you've managed the finishing blow.

I don't know if you were around when Evoker was first in the works, so you may not know this, but there is a reason that Evoker damage is superior to the other classes. They are literally classified as "nuke mage." This is likely the primary reason that their skills don't have additional effects outside of extra damage; it's because damage is their gimmick. Other classes have additional effects and versatility in their skills, while everything about Evoker screams "attack with overwhelming power!"

tl;dr: No, no class should be able to match Evoker in terms of raw damage output, because other classes have more room for strategy. For an Evoker, damage is the only strategy. If there ever were a melee class that could move in on Evoker's gimmick, it would need to be something like... surprise, surprise: Berserker.

Re: Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - Sawrock - 01-13-2015

This is a fantasy world. Magic can happen, and so can humans/human-like races having the potential to be stronger/toughter/etc than humans in real life. In fantasy, we can get slashed by a sword, and it won't kill, simply because of the improved toughness. It's somewhat anime-styled, but it occurs a lot in video games as well, likely more so.

Re: Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - Soapy - 01-13-2015

What those two said, as well.

I'm pretty sure level 60s are quite beyond what we'd consider normal.

Re: Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - Rockabye - 01-13-2015

"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=3366#p3366 Wrote:Sawrock » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:09 am[/url]"]get slashed by a sword

and

Quote:getting cut in half

are not the same thing. It's also important to realize that just because a fantasy world is making survival of direct hits possible, that does not mean that's what is happening. If you're attacking someone with a sword, and they have a weapon too, they're probably not just going to stand there and make no attempt to block it. I'm pretty sure that the Defense stat is there for that reason. Systematically at the very least, everyone tries to block, but some are more adept at it than others.

Re: Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - Argonus - 01-13-2015

I should also point out that kensei and VA aren't straight up offensive class like Evokers are, they're more CC with a fair amount of DPS thrown in. Don't expect them to have as much damage output from more dedicated offensive classes.

Re: Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - KhalidtheGrey - 01-13-2015

Well that blew up in a hurry... Anyway, I more or less see what y'all are saying... (mildly overwhelmed) The main reason I even thought to bring this up is that if I had to pick one melee class whose whole schtick is killing, it's the kensei, every single one of there combat skills (even reflect bullets) is just garbage... By far the best thing they can do is if you happen to stand next to them for a full round, they will knock you on your ass and deal... roughly equal damage to a crit or a couple regular attacks... ...And It's worthless, you use up 3M to move back to them and they use up 3M to get up, an exact trade which wastes times and is better off just being more sword hits. Kensei always boils down (in my experience) to cutting people pretty much in half while dodging all the melee stuff and then getting erased by the evoker. Absolute fear and absolute death are pretty much the only skills i actually really like, sheath sword is neat though.

Actually now that I think about it, why in all hell would you make a class specifically designed to quickly and effortlessly kill EVERYTHING in the battlefield..? It's just... all it does it put people on a power trip and you can't do anything with it ICly unless you actually /want/ to level the area and burn [insert town name] to the ground. Not to mention they have zero sustain, take the fun out of PVE for everyone involved (even themselves), corner the PVP arena by 1v4ing people, and so on.

Generally the 'absolute power' mage concept is reserved for the villains and things with this kind of power get banned or simply not approved in RP groups/forums... The more I think about it, the more I think evoker shouldn't exist. Maybe replace it with that druid idea that's been floating around in various forms.

Plus the power to OTKO whole teams without moving is going to trump literally everything other than silence if you can get to them first and hit them with it, god forbid they sub LB and have silent prayer... They'll just laugh and kill you anyway.

Re: Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - KhalidtheGrey - 01-13-2015

-Just saw the reply from Argonus-

Aside from absolute fear and black bolt, their CC is kinda crappy and they are both designed to keep you alive long enough to kill them, why not forgo the debuff and just go with more damage...? And in kensei's case, that is the point of absolute death, you straight up kill them. However it's one person at a time.

Re: Apparently being bisected hurts less than a fireball.... - Soapy - 01-13-2015

"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=3370#p3370 Wrote:KhalidtheGrey » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:42 pm[/url]"]kensei, every single one of there combat skills (even reflect bullets) is just garbage... By far the best thing they can do is if you happen to stand next to them for a full round, they will knock you on your ass and deal... roughly equal damage to a crit or a couple regular attacks...

corner the PVP arena by 1v4ing people

I think evoker shouldn't exist. Maybe replace it with that druid idea that's been floating around in various forms.

OTKO whole teams without moving

Stop everything you're saying and make an Evoker. Then come back and try again.