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+--- Thread: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) (/showthread.php?tid=8025)
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Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - WaifuApple - 05-31-2021
Okay, so it has been a long while since rune mage has been added to the game, and at current, when it shows it seems to be oppressive in both PvE and PvP, at least against a good chunk of builds. So, with that in mind, and after discussion and experience, I'd like to propose issues that at least I, and some others, think need addressing, and potential solutions.
- Razor Rune:
This is honestly the big one for earning ire with in terms of rune mage, because of how many instances of unscaling damage you get from it if using it the way it's normally used. It should not be causing damage on every tile it passes by, so what I suggest in this regard is:
- Razor Rune can no longer do more than your rank in it in terms of damage instances when it passes by someone. This means it caps at 3 instances of damage on a person per rush, rather than the current amount.
It's also problematic with visual indication of what tiles are being hit, so I suggest that a razor rune plays the ravage spin animation over tiles within its' range when it moves. This way the attack doesn't simply seem... "invisible" when it comes.
- Illuminated Rune:
Using this, you can end up with enemies on a number as absurd as LV300 Glowing. Which, if I remember the effect of glowing correctly, is -300 evade. That's more than most if not all evade builds can muster, and absolutely mutilates them against pretty much anything, ruining their defensive prospects.
My solution to this is general. Glowing, like magnetise, should have a cap to effectiveness. Either at 50 evade loss or 100 evade lost, this turns unworkable into just punishing.
- Null Rune / Chronos Rune:
The synergy between these two is just too much. You essentially end up with runes that will last until destroyed, and with the health runes can have, doing that is often a dangerous prospect for anyone not at range as is. This means that Chronos rune can reach it's max and add a LOT of range to the rune, easily, while you probably get punished for trying to stop it.
The solution? Make the two mutually exclusive. A rune with null and a rune with chronos should not be able to combine. You either take a long-lasting rune, or a one with crazy range potential, not both. It forces a choice onto the player, with that in mind.
Now, you might disagree with my opinions and suggestions, or you might think other things also need to get hit. Whatever the case is, I think I speak for a lot of people when I say rune mage has some outright ludicrous things going for it.
So I'd be interested in seeing how you think things should be changed.
RE: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - Snake - 05-31-2021
As I mentioned, it doesn't work making the >runes< mutually exclusive, due to how Rune Level works. We need all of them to be able to stack up since that's how you make a big rune, you'd be missing one extra level on that if this was the case, so!
Quote:- Chrono Rune and Null Rune's effects, should be mutually exclusive. If you place Chrono Rune first, Null Rune will not do anything. If you place Null Rune first, Chrono Rune will not do anything, making the order matter.
And yes, agreed on Glowing LV. At its best, it's -300 Evade for like 8 rounds. That, and all of the Rune Magician's team will benefit from an enemy getting their Evade reduced by 300 for the entirety of the fight, or quickly mow them down if they were a defenseless dodge with low HP.
But yes, sure. For that to become that, you'd need a fully stacked rune popping on an enemy, so.
Quote:- Illuminated Rune's Glowing LV should be capped in three ways:
> Resonate and Engrave: LV capped at 5 + Runemage Class Level, (doubled if Rune Magician is both your main and sub-classes)
> Trigger: LV capped at 5 + Runemage Class Level * 2. (doubled if Rune Magician is both your main and sub-classes)
Razor Rune has been the bread and butter of a Rune Magician and it's disgusting, godmoddy and memey in any instance of combat, be it PvP or PvE. There's nothing interactive with being hit out of nowhere several times for 90 slash damage and that shit's very anti-climatic. Imagine being at the tail end of it? I suggest a hard cap again, really. The way it works now is alright, but the damage is miserably strong for how you can control a rune for a mere 3M.
Quote:- Razor Rune's damage is capped at RM Class Level, and the cap is doubled if your Main Class and Sub-Class are Rune Magician.
And there's one last one you're forgetting, Appobuddy. Haste Rune, which for a mere, small 2M, you can ignore Evasion of the entire enemy team for as long as you have your rune around. That should also go, because anything that ignores Evasion makes it a staple for someone to build tank and just be this invincible doomwall when you can kill both other tanks, and dodges, no matter what.
Quote:- Haste Rune's effect should be changed from 'ignores Evasion' to 'reduces enemy's Evasion damage reduction by half'.
Closing thoughts and open discussion:
- Why do you think I'm limiting Rune Magician's things to "Destiny only" in a sense? Well. First, because we need more Destiny boons for the class and SL2 in general, and that kills two birds with one stone, and second, it's because Rune Magician is not really that self-sufficient to carry itself, given all the class offers aside Mage's basic things is what? More rune durability? It's hard to play Rune Magician/Rune Magician, and it should reward the player for being mad.
Rune Magician needs Grand Summoner, Bonder or Engineer to distract the enemies while they build up their thing, and those class combinations most likely will always succeed in their endeavors against your average player. So limiting the power they can have with dual-classing the classes that piggyback Rune Magician, for having a more successful chance in fighting seems like a fair trade.
If you wanna be super powerful runespinner? Just go destiny and suffer for more damage.
If you wanna play safe and be sustained damage while tricking your enemies with baits? Don't go destiny and be a watered down version of what it currently is.
What do y'all think?
RE: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - K Peculier - 06-01-2021
Seeing and witnessing the sudden influx of Rune Mages in PvE and PvP environments (characters believing themselves having 500 IQ for SPEEN in particular) has made me feel less special when using Rune Mage, and now the time has come for the beyblades of doom to be slapped down a notch.
Another note is the fact that these doom wheels basically DOMINATE in events too is ridiculous and very boring to me personally. The fact that eventmins have to cater and come up with a measure just for one class (and hexers) is very wack.
I agree with everything suggested by Apple and Kunai right now.
Though it it were up to me. I'd personally just have it so adding a razor makes it so runes cannot move anymore and using the rush skills would just have them proc at their location once.
RE: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - Autumn - 06-01-2021
Razor Runes are simply too effective, their entire gameplay strategy is completely out of line and is deserving of a retooling almost entirely. at the very least Razor Rune needs to not ignore magic armor, that would very much severely cut the damage while adding a measure of counterplay.
Secondly, Haste rune is my bigger concern out of all of these, as its 2m to ignore Evasion on some big burst damage combos, when Razor Rune falls out of the preferred method of rune murdering, then people will move onto the Elemental Rune > Destruction Rune > Haste Rune > Solo Rush combo to obliterate dodgies with 400 un-evadable damage.
RE: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - sadbot - 06-01-2021
I’m also on board with this, smoke rune nerf made it a bit more possible to actually destroy the rune but it’s still difficult and risky. As mentioned many times above, the main issue still remains that the good old beyblade strategy is just overtuned and unfun to play against due to the invisible range of runes that you often have to guess at, the very limited counterplay and ability to do buckets of non scaling damage.
RE: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - GalacticSeal - 06-08-2021
I'm just going to point out Rune Magician is impossible to deal with for any earth mages because Magaisendo with Galren does **not** allow you to destroy runes. Runes also do not give any momentum to basic attackers despite any critical hits. I would appreciate both of these being changed to help provide more reliable counters to runes in general.
RE: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - FancyCyclops - 06-15-2021
What others have said, I thought of saying.
But I will add that Rune Mage's presence is so overbearing that they are the first thing thought of when thinking about cheesing something.
Personal problem for sure, but...
RE: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - adamkad1 - 09-12-2021
(06-08-2021, 10:40 PM)GalacticSeal Wrote: I'm just going to point out Rune Magician is impossible to deal with for any earth mages because Magaisendo with Galren does **not** allow you to destroy runes. Runes also do not give any momentum to basic attackers despite any critical hits. I would appreciate both of these being changed to help provide more reliable counters to runes in general.I think that should be a thing, making anything that destroys field objects make destiny rune mages cry in the uselessness of their +rune hp (I'm serious about this. screw your rune hp)
RE: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - Raigen.Convict - 09-17-2021
I can't even play the class without getting so many dirty looks. I actually use it for its various engraving effects mostly as those are faster and I often wind up with 2 momentum to spare. It's also yes, so I can if I must make a large rune to aoe with, but, because it's too good... I generally reserve the latter for PVE vs high level mobs. Otherwise I use the engrave system with the runes or place them out as more like traps.
RE: Wheel of Death (and other rune mage balance stuff) - Poruku - 09-22-2021
I wish I could make a rune mage character and not feel bad. I think the beyblade strategy should be removed entirely. Just put a cap on the amount of runes you can stack, imo. Because even if it was balanced, it looks really really ugly. That is almost my biggest problem with beyblading. You get this immense rune that looks like the jankiest mess of colors and oversized pixels. Just keep rune combos to 5 or something and nerf the most outrageous combos