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+--- Thread: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap (/showthread.php?tid=9629)
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Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - Lolzytripd - 09-26-2022
It is simply a trap, a trap that feels good when you forsake any hope of defensive options but a trap none the less.
Stapling crit damage to guile is a tax that makes going crit fishing on a strength (or willpower I guess) build a statistical debt hole deeper than the current housing market.
let me run it down for you
You pay the aptitude tax since we all know we're going into a bunch of stats here.
You pay papa's skill tax to actually hit things
You pay the Strength tax (or willpower I guess, you're weird for using your excelgraph like this, the manic slasher is fine tho)
You stare into the crit void and cry, paying the luck tax.
You look at your sad handful of stats left...If you put them into defensive stats you could maybe survive a little bit, not a lot, but a bit.
Then you realize without Guile your crits are weaker than any of those fancy skills that use -gasp- over 100% of your swa. Oh lord, heck, you can even just stay where you are and just slap on the redgull badge and add your lightning attack to the damage too, heck some of those skills already scale on elemental attack aswell and do so much more than your crits without guile.
You come to your senses, you're a true unga bunga, you don't use skills unless its power grad, ether invitation or geldoren, or some other basic attack+, so you put your points in guile, enough that you can finally say that you are going diamond hands to the moon on the gambling stock market of crit damage, finally soaring above -most- swa scaling skills.
You look at your paltry left over stats, weep a little, and spread them between vit and san, atleast your health pool gives you a false sense of bravado that maybe, just maybe, you can get into range to unga bunga your opponent.
TLDR
Give strength crit damage too, and accept that people who are dumb will probably just double dip it and guile for big dopamine numbers and still die because they have very few defensive options.
or
Take away crit damage from guile, it does enough things now with flanking, farshot, and skill slots to really need crit damage as an identity and return to monkey, going back to Pre GR 200% base crit modifier +weapon and passives.
The only time I had fun as a strength crit build was by committing tax evasion with cruel commander and extend void, so I could actually afford defensive options.
RE: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - renowner - 09-26-2022
I agree that going for a critical damage build takes way too many stats. And also feel that its bullshit that lightning critical skills no longer need guile, still have talents to raise the damage multiplier, and are just better than actual criticals a lot of the time, without needing guile.
However i think that giving critical damage to strength could be problematic since strength also adds to your health pool. At the same time. . .
Daggers are amazing as a crit tool, as are guns because: They don't need strength, they don't kneed wil. They have the stats necesarry to do well without ruining their build overall. Axes are supposed to be an amazing crit weapon too, but its very hard to actually get to that point without sacrificing a lot of your luck and using a berserker shell or something.
Both of the proposed options I don't really like, though. Daggers and guns can't be two handed for more power, unless they're mutated into something else, which takes an enchantment slot. So letting the already better weapons do criticals so well, so easily could be very problematic too.
Really, i'd just want str scaling weapons and wil scaling weapons to have a higher base critical damage rate across the board.
Tldr:
Str getting a bit of critical damage multiplier is maybe fine, but it shouldn't be as much as guile at all. maybe like how skill gives half as much crit as luck.
Giving str scaling weapons and maybe wil scaling weapons slightly more critical multiplier baseline would also be fine. Most weapons starting at 110% or so is pretty lame.
Upping the base critical multiplier of bows, axes, swords, spears, and tomes, maybe fists (or at least whip tomes) would also be fine, since they all scale with str/wil to begin with anyway.
Honestly my personal preference would just be to set them up to 130% Base critical damage multipliers, I don't think that'd break anything other than excel weapons, but people already abuse those and if we had an excel dagger you know everyone would be using it.
Axes will still be crit kings with their talent that boosts critical damage, and their weapon part that does the same. Could still maybe have a small bit of variety between them all.
RE: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - Autumn - 09-26-2022
Any non-dagger or axe melee weapon should have their critical damage base tuned up to 125%, to match Axes, as Axes will still have a axehead and a talent to give them lots of critical damage with. There is a common complaint that GUI is required in STR focused basic attackers but I beg to differ, GUI diminishes in actual damage received over a larger spectrum, and SWA is inherently more valuable unless the 1.5x damage bonus is removed.
Axes feel good without much for GUI investment because building GUI on them starts to gain diminishing returns, a high base critical number allows them to simply build for the stat they should be building, STR, and I would like for Swords/Spears/Fists to all feel the same.
RE: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - Snake - 09-27-2022
Have we turned the matters to Armor Penetration yet?
RE: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - Raigen.Convict - 09-29-2022
0.5 crit damage on strength sounds cool honestly to me.
RE: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - Poruku - 10-02-2022
Some adjustments could be made to weapon crit multi but the stats themselves are just fine
RE: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - Lolzytripd - 10-02-2022
(10-02-2022, 09:30 AM)Poruku Wrote: Some adjustments could be made to weapon crit multi but the stats themselves are just finehard disagree, building a strength based crit build and guile based crit build should have equal access to defensive options. Instead the guile based crit build gets to do -more- damage by nature of going even deeper into guile than a strength build can truly ever afford, while keeping an entire stat's worth of investment available for defensive investment.
There's a reason Va/DH is so reliable. guile.
IF guile -has- to retain crit damage for some insane reason.
Increase all weapon crit damage by 50%, reduce guile crit bonus to .5 (yeah this would hurt any crit builds going over 50 scaled guile)
RE: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - MegaBlues - 10-02-2022
strength isn't equal to the other primary damage stats. give it, like, 1 SWA per 2 points or something.
RE: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - Ray2064 - 10-02-2022
Giving Strength crit damage would put tanks more at a disadvantage than they already are tbh, so it's a hard disagree from me
RE: Strength (and I guess willpower) based basic attack crit fishing is a trap - Lolzytripd - 10-02-2022
(10-02-2022, 11:57 AM)Ray2064 Wrote: Giving Strength crit damage would put tanks more at a disadvantage than they already are tbh, so it's a hard disagree from metanks....at a disadvantage?
tanks are the most privileged entities in the game right now. Heck in the current test iteration (2.65) they are literally gods among men.
But really when talking about changes to strength in regards to making it "equal offensively" to the other two "damage" stats, the arguement of it putting "tanks at a disadvantage" shouldn't even be a point.