+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Team-wide healing Suggestion (/showthread.php?tid=10391)
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Skimmy2 - 07-24-2023
Is this even a problem?
Like seriously, just grab a group of 20 friends together and pair up into fours and start actually testing how broken 3 healers are in a party.
I highly doubt we've discovered the new PvP meta just now.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - PantherPrincess - 07-24-2023
I'm more so referring to Hi-Pots which are accessible on Korvara, which is 200 HP back, and then there's also bandages which can be used outside of battle. A specced out Graft user hits around let's say around 200 or 214 HP let's just say for a guesstimate. While they're not AoE (aside from bandages) they're free of charge in terms of FP which is their pro. As for the argument at hand, I am simply pointing out that all of the points OP made are seemingly based on his pvp experiences (which there is nothing wrong with it just ties into my comment about build scenarios and team compositions) currently and I quote:
"So here's a simple suggestion, since AOE healing is known to be an utter pain in the ass for teamfights, mostly due to negating entire turns of attacking and actions for no more than 3 momentum, often blocking a team with most of it's firepowering options shut down into an eternal struggle.
So here's a rather simple suggestion-
For each player ally healed, healing gets -15% efficient, capping at around 60% total efficiency. Healing would definitely remain extremely strong that way, but it actually would mean a side that does not have it's own AOE heals/ ways to disable opposite healing would stand a chance in a teamfight."
While a whole team of healers can certainly be oppressive in certain scenarios, I don't think being unprepared for a healer warrants for a nerf. Team compositions sounds more of an unlucky draw than a balance fu thread. There are many forms of interference in the game ranging from magic gunner to evoker to LB itself and even black knight. I just don't see how much more you can remove from them while still retaining cooldowns that already hinder them from spamming it every round and retaining any sense of use before the damage negates the heal itself completely. Because you can already do that depending on the scenario. Keep in mind action economy plays a huge role in a healer too. Not just FP, cooldowns, silence, interference.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Lolzytripd - 07-24-2023
Imagine this every 2-3 turns the spellthief aquamancer mass rescue grafts their team, whenever there's a panic they have mallmello, the dark bard next to them in the back can merrily jam a away and pop their heal when needed, the dark bard also guarantees fp is never an issue.
Now these aren't hard support only either, they have amazing spamable large/global options too.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Skullcatrons - 07-24-2023
(07-24-2023, 06:08 AM)caliaca Wrote: Pots do not heal more than those spells in Korvara. We do not have PRs.200 HP potion. Still qualify depending on who you asking. But I can understand why you went with this.
They are also not AoE. I don't think they're particularly comparable here.
(07-24-2023, 06:22 AM)Autumn Wrote: Unironically I think Lolzy and Kunai are actually correct here, while not everyone does it, cycling between heals over and over, you could realistically just randomly run into a party with a Dark Bard/Ranger and a Priest in it and you'd be facing down the guns of 3 diversified builds with access to generally amazing AoE global healing abilities. And the worst part is, they could just be friends or acquaintances just circumstantially paired together.
This makes the teamfighting 4v4 sweatlord experience of the game unfun, genuinely so. I would start to look at options that would involve mitigating the amount of incoming healing (and not self healing) from these more powerful skills, that way other things like Meditate, Rebound and such remain untouched for the time being.
This is based on just extremes circumstances. Happened in past. Will happens again. This is more or less "I should've come prepared for healers". If your party composition did not have a method, or surefire means to deal with healers in the first place. Then you're going to have to face losses one way, or another. There's so few real cleanses like Performer's buffed Cantus of Consideration, or Aquamancer's Mainclass Purifying Aquae that get rid of interferences and confusions. Or even spellthief's Negiotate.
So effectively this is just a party composition issue where you should've accounted for healers in first place, and should've progressed strongly for getting interferences or confusions in your kit to prevent healers healstacking. Speaking of. Healthiefs are affront to god.
Okay but yes.
It's why I said it is more constructive to just ask dev to nerf Elves. I don't wanna keep repeating the same mojo again, and again and again and again. But if your main issues with healers is going to be because they're healing. You'll find it that Elves boost healings per SAN investment. Elves can easily bypass the most common tools used to approach healers because they can safety focus on building as much SANs as possible to minimize the risks of interferences, confusions, and so goes on.
Again. Nerfing healers is not your solution here. You simply have bad match, a bad day, you walked into walk corners. You should've come prepared with team that least have pocketed interference or confusion or hells, silence. It's just game of counters to counters.
(07-24-2023, 07:13 AM)Lolzytripd Wrote: Imagine this every 2-3 turns the spellthief aquamancer mass rescue grafts their team, whenever there's a panic they have mallmello, the dark bard next to them in the back can merrily jam a away and pop their heal when needed, the dark bard also guarantees fp is never an issue.
Now these aren't hard support only either, they have amazing spamable large/global options too.
Spellthiefs. Again. Affront to god. A single-handed reason why Malmelo got nerfed long ago to be FAI% scaled. What you should be asking for is more spellthief nerfs, and Elves' healing legacy nerf.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Lolzytripd - 07-24-2023
Multihealer is the problem.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Senna - 07-24-2023
Just slap a potion sickness variant to it. "You have just been healed, all other healing outside of items are now 50% effective for 2 rounds" or something like that. It doesn't need to be complex.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Skullcatrons - 07-24-2023
(07-24-2023, 07:38 AM)Lolzytripd Wrote: Multihealer is the problem.
And you have ways to counter this. Almost as if ..
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132940587943870504/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132940687860576346/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132940835630108742/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132941021592948766/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132941109069357137/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132941141113839707/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132941183379845150/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132941275507724358/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132941497025695805/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132941977579704432/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132942293373030482/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132943012268351568/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132943075308748911/image.png)
And finally...
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927980214422753350/1132942258426105907/image.png)
So what's the problem?
Elves.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - caliaca - 07-24-2023
Ima go back and add if your graft is hitting less than hi pots you've built pretty God awful.
Not weighing in on anything else but those are not comparable at all.
Actually I'll weigh in on one other thing-
Sturm shiek is really bad due to inflict rates on it.
2 round silences oft just do nothing due to turn order and heron feather as well.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Skullcatrons - 07-24-2023
(07-24-2023, 08:00 AM)caliaca Wrote: Actually I'll weigh in on one other thing-
Sturm shiek is really bad due to inflict rates on it.
2 round silences oft just do nothing due to turn order and heron feather as well.
Almost as if we could balance fu breadbake another "Counters are not good enough" discussion. (It is already well-known boxers need a rework at this point but honestly make another thread for hell of it.)
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - caliaca - 07-24-2023
(07-24-2023, 08:36 AM)Skullcatrons Wrote:(07-24-2023, 08:00 AM)caliaca Wrote: Actually I'll weigh in on one other thing-
Sturm shiek is really bad due to inflict rates on it.
2 round silences oft just do nothing due to turn order and heron feather as well.
Almost as if we could balance fu breadbake another "Counters are not good enough" discussion. (It is already well-known boxers need a rework at this point but honestly make another thread for hell of it.)
Yea I actually think there was a whole silence thread too.
Admittedly most curates just silent prayer 3 turn one's.
Infet is something else though