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+--- Thread: Dragon Peasant (/showthread.php?tid=10409)
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RE: Dragon Peasant - Miller - 08-04-2023
(08-03-2023, 10:28 PM)Poruku Wrote: Imagine thinking +3 scaled str that ignores cap is bad
Dragon king is definitely overrated, I think people go bonkers for that % increase to stats, and use dragon king on builds that really don't make that much use of it, and could use better options. Perhaps out of not knowing what else to get. But it's actually good on certain builds that really want high strength such as shaitans or certain high swa builds. I'd say the best one is probably glove, then helm maybe if you wanna use the mask of metal trait, and then the armor is ok if there's nothing better and you want damage.
Is it better than akmedis/crowbleeder+/any good accessory? Eh, not really, it depends. But stacking damage high is something that has an inherent value. The reality is more complex than comparing numbers after all. That's of course just for pvp. In pve? More damage is all you want, so of course it's good.
No one ever said it was bad, it's just that there's much more options that are more stat efficient in their respective slots barring Dragon King Helm.
Crownbleeder+/Nullstone Gauntlets/Rogue Work Gloves/Idol/Terrasque/Akdemis/Body Guard/Some Ele Res armors and so on more or less out perform it in the efficiency department and leave more stats that could go into other stats or in fact, even strength. This means the only builds that can actually make use of DK are typically the ones hovering close to the hard cap, which leaves them often dry on stats to go outside of STR.
That said, I wouldn't mind a bit more STR on the set to further emphasize the niche it brings. Fae makes a great point, the set effect could probably ramp up with each piece you add onto it, just so you aren't just sticking to the accessory slot only.
RE: Dragon Peasant - Poruku - 08-04-2023
The real strength (lol) of dragon king is increasing your cap. It's not really about stat efficiency, the point of the item is to push damage a bit further than you're supposed to. So the gloves are comparable to crownbleeder but not outright worse. In many builds, they're better.
I agree that it could use a little buff though, especially in the set department. Even a handful of bonuses being given for having 2-3 pieces would push it to the forefront of the meta imo.
RE: Dragon Peasant - caliaca - 08-04-2023
(08-04-2023, 01:04 AM)Poruku Wrote: The real strength (lol) of dragon king is increasing your cap. It's not really about stat efficiency, the point of the item is to push damage a bit further than you're supposed to. So the gloves are comparable to crownbleeder but not outright worse. In many builds, they're better.
I agree that it could use a little buff though, especially in the set department. Even a handful of bonuses being given for having 2-3 pieces would push it to the forefront of the meta imo.
Mathematically, increasing your cap is actually not that impact full I hate to say. Like as a critter if you're going raw str you can go into cap and take 5 out of luck for crownbleeder and put that extra into str and get more than the soft cap increase gives. The breakpoint for this is like 25 into soft cap, which if you're doing that it's uh
It's bad
You can do the same with ten points of res from nullstone gauntlets and so on and so forth.
There's rarely a case where anything outside of the accessory is worth it. I have the hands specifically as never use.
If you have an example where they give more stats I'd love to see it
RE: Dragon Peasant - Autumn - 08-04-2023
(08-04-2023, 11:30 AM)caliaca Wrote:(08-04-2023, 01:04 AM)Poruku Wrote: The real strength (lol) of dragon king is increasing your cap. It's not really about stat efficiency, the point of the item is to push damage a bit further than you're supposed to. So the gloves are comparable to crownbleeder but not outright worse. In many builds, they're better.
I agree that it could use a little buff though, especially in the set department. Even a handful of bonuses being given for having 2-3 pieces would push it to the forefront of the meta imo.
Mathematically, increasing your cap is actually not that impact full I hate to say. Like as a critter if you're going raw str you can go into cap and take 5 out of luck for crownbleeder and put that extra into str and get more than the soft cap increase gives. The breakpoint for this is like 25 into soft cap, which if you're doing that it's uh
It's bad
You can do the same with ten points of res from nullstone gauntlets and so on and so forth.
There's rarely a case where anything outside of the accessory is worth it. I have the hands specifically as never use.
If you have an example where they give more stats I'd love to see it
I get what you're saying, but Dragon King isn't for crit builds, so you should never make it compete for Crownbleeder to a BK or a Ghost. Dragon King was always more geared towards cheesy STR builds or autohitting builds like Kensei or DH in the past, and even then it competed against Bloody Palms, the catch-all unbalanced glove slot that was even more interchangeable than Idol is now.
Not getting into the specifics of why Nullstone Gauntlet is not actually 10 RES, I think that Dragon King could get better in the following ways
-Increasing STR scaling with each additional piece, encouraging more stacking together, something like: 5%/10%/20%
Or
-Creating a 5 piece set effect for dragon king which enables new skills to play around with, perhaps counts the user as a dragon race and give them wings or fire or something.
RE: Dragon Peasant - caliaca - 08-04-2023
(08-04-2023, 05:35 PM)Autumn Wrote:(08-04-2023, 11:30 AM)caliaca Wrote:(08-04-2023, 01:04 AM)Poruku Wrote: The real strength (lol) of dragon king is increasing your cap. It's not really about stat efficiency, the point of the item is to push damage a bit further than you're supposed to. So the gloves are comparable to crownbleeder but not outright worse. In many builds, they're better.
I agree that it could use a little buff though, especially in the set department. Even a handful of bonuses being given for having 2-3 pieces would push it to the forefront of the meta imo.
Mathematically, increasing your cap is actually not that impact full I hate to say. Like as a critter if you're going raw str you can go into cap and take 5 out of luck for crownbleeder and put that extra into str and get more than the soft cap increase gives. The breakpoint for this is like 25 into soft cap, which if you're doing that it's uh
It's bad
You can do the same with ten points of res from nullstone gauntlets and so on and so forth.
There's rarely a case where anything outside of the accessory is worth it. I have the hands specifically as never use.
If you have an example where they give more stats I'd love to see it
I get what you're saying, but Dragon King isn't for crit builds, so you should never make it compete for Crownbleeder to a BK or a Ghost. Dragon King was always more geared towards cheesy STR builds or autohitting builds like Kensei or DH in the past, and even then it competed against Bloody Palms, the catch-all unbalanced glove slot that was even more interchangeable than Idol is now.
Not getting into the specifics of why Nullstone Gauntlet is not actually 10 RES, I think that Dragon King could get better in the following ways
-Increasing STR scaling with each additional piece, encouraging more stacking together, something like: 5%/10%/20%
Or
-Creating a 5 piece set effect for dragon king which enables new skills to play around with, perhaps counts the user as a dragon race and give them wings or fire or something.
No it's more like 7.8 res realistically speaking.
I did actually do some numbers for set bonus increases
This one seemed potentially the best but also likely slightly too strong
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/962114466051403776/1136232547123200080/image.png
RE: Dragon Peasant - Poruku - 08-04-2023
Well, when your build is focused around dealing damage with strength such as a shaitan using grapple or any non-crit SWA gouger, increasing your total scaled strength from 60 to 63 is in fact significant, moreso than increasing some different stat by 5 for instance. In many cases, I agree that more overall stats is best, but some builds get a lot of benefit from pushing STR to the 70 area.
Like, I have a shaitan tactician / priest that uses grappling and a 110% STR casting tool (mutated sword into tome). I don't need hit because I just use evade ignore spells, healing, and grapple, and I don't need crit, I just need SWA and tankiness. On a build like that, big strength is all I need, and as such each piece is a solid option (though I use a shield). That's an example of why looking at the stats in a vaccum isn't really giving the full story.
RE: Dragon Peasant - FaeLenx - 08-04-2023
You just described one of two specific builds that could maybe make value out of the entire dragon king set and how you'd still rather use something else in the handslot.
RE: Dragon Peasant - Poruku - 08-04-2023
Well if I wasn't mainclass soldier I would use the glove! Hahaha, hey I'm just saying it has a use. My point isn't that it's powerful, just that it is better than other options in certain situations