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+--- Thread: Blue Potions (/showthread.php?tid=10600)
RE: Blue Potions - caliaca - 11-26-2023
(11-26-2023, 11:39 AM)FaeLenx Wrote:(11-25-2023, 10:08 AM)caliaca Wrote:Blue potion spam builds are inherently worse than builds that don't need to use 3m every other turn to keep going. Blue potion spam isn't going to win you a fight. It'll just keep you fighting, and it's already a losing position unless your opponent is also suffering for FP or just really willing to let you keep doing it for free.(11-25-2023, 10:01 AM)FaeLenx Wrote: Blue potions as they are are just a crutch to make certain FP hungry builds that don't have any form of FP regeneration viable. If they were made single use they'd definitely need a buff. Any fight that drags on long enough for someone to break out the blue pots doesn't end at just one, and I'd rather not buff sustain tanks into being oppressive beyond all reason again. The moment running your opponent out of FP becomes viable against half the builds in game with no other pressure applied, you're going to see a lot 7m guarding builds with their own inherent healing and FP Regen.
TBH we're already seeing a lot of blue pot spam builds. This is mostly to rectify that while providing a corresponding buff so they aren't dog as hell.
There's some good builds right now that can blue spam from an advantageous position. This view is outdated for the current application of how blue pot spam is being used.
RE: Blue Potions - Rendar - 11-26-2023
For reference on blue pot spam.
They (for 3m and nothing else cost wise) give back 45 FP.
Descending Ouroborous gives back 45 FP as well, for 2m (and is class specific).
The difference is the DH skill has a cooldown of 2 turns and requires you to be airborne to perform (which Leaping Lizard costs 5 FP and 1 Momentum).. making it recover, technically, 40 fp.
Blue Potions shouldn't be infinite FP for no actual cost. If FP costs are so bad on some classes that you are unable to sustain through 5 rounds of combat with your build. One of a few things should occur.
A ) Your class needs an FP touch over all, or you should play a sub-class that has the FP sustain to handle it (Demon Hunter, Monk, Dark Bard)
B ) You can equip FP regen, you can get 6 FP / Turn from just existing with a HMC + Capacity. If you take 5 points in chivalry, you get 5 FP back for every frontal attack you do
If the issue is "I can't play if the fight lasts longer than 7 rounds" or "I can't play if the fight lasts 10 rounds", then sustainability of FP should be something you have to account for in a fight. Not just...
Being able to chug blue potions indefinitely.
RE: Blue Potions - Ray2064 - 11-26-2023
for the love of god dont recommend monk as an fp sustain class i will kill you
RE: Blue Potions - Rendar - 11-26-2023
(11-26-2023, 04:40 PM)Ray2064 Wrote: for the love of god dont recommend monk as an fp sustain class i will kill youYou get an FP regen ability built in.
I'll call it an FP sustain class because, if left alone to your own devices? You can regen FP faster than other classes.
RE: Blue Potions - Ray2064 - 11-26-2023
(11-26-2023, 04:45 PM)Rendar Wrote:50 FP for 7M with a 2 round cooldown is...I wouldn't call it ideal by any means, the FP generally comes as a bonus to the provided Ki rather than the other way around- though I'll keep the rest of my complaints for the next Monk thread.(11-26-2023, 04:40 PM)Ray2064 Wrote: for the love of god dont recommend monk as an fp sustain class i will kill youYou get an FP regen ability built in.
I'll call it an FP sustain class because, if left alone to your own devices? You can regen FP faster than other classes.
RE: Blue Potions - Poruku - 11-28-2023
I really like blue potions personally, I think it honestly makes sense that you can keep the fight going if you want, by using a suboptimal fp regeneration item... Keyword suboptimal. The fact it goes from 20fp to 45fp due to the talent is kinda huge and I don't think Dev intended this to be this good. Just make the talent increase it by 2 per rank instead of 5. 30fp for 3m is fair. Only used in really long fights when you need it, and not as good as other fp regeneration options.
RE: Blue Potions - FaeLenx - 11-29-2023
(11-26-2023, 03:00 PM)Rendar Wrote: For reference on blue pot spam.
They (for 3m and nothing else cost wise) give back 45 FP.
Descending Ouroborous gives back 45 FP as well, for 2m (and is class specific).
The difference is the DH skill has a cooldown of 2 turns and requires you to be airborne to perform (which Leaping Lizard costs 5 FP and 1 Momentum).. making it recover, technically, 40 fp.
Blue Potions shouldn't be infinite FP for no actual cost. If FP costs are so bad on some classes that you are unable to sustain through 5 rounds of combat with your build. One of a few things should occur.
A ) Your class needs an FP touch over all, or you should play a sub-class that has the FP sustain to handle it (Demon Hunter, Monk, Dark Bard)
B ) You can equip FP regen, you can get 6 FP / Turn from just existing with a HMC + Capacity. If you take 5 points in chivalry, you get 5 FP back for every frontal attack you do
If the issue is "I can't play if the fight lasts longer than 7 rounds" or "I can't play if the fight lasts 10 rounds", then sustainability of FP should be something you have to account for in a fight. Not just...
Being able to chug blue potions indefinitely.
3 momentum is a cost. If you consider any move that takes 3m and 45+ FP as a 6m move, it starts to change how you view that thing. Just because someone doesn't want to build a faith-tank or Will caster to make their build that still uses skills to last longer than 5 rounds doesn't mean you need to nerf the tool they're using to make it happen.
If you have a build that lets someone just chug potions turn after turn and you have no means to punish them for otherwise dead momentum, consider your own build. As for my view being outdated... I don't really see how. No new mechanics have come into play that strictly affect FP. It's just new metas that will quickly overtake each other. It is still, on a fundamental level, strictly worse than just having the FP you need to continue to do your actions you prefer and having a build that achieves that.
RE: Blue Potions - zericosmic - 11-30-2023
Personally while I don't think it's OP or anything, given it costs half a turn.. I think it's silly that if you look for any sort of option to regain FP (outside of gather power) everyone is going to tell you to just spam blue pots rather than use 90% of the FP regain skills that you have to invest actual class skill points/ skill slots to have because it's just more efficient.
RE: Blue Potions - Autumn - 12-01-2023
(11-30-2023, 11:09 PM)zericosmic Wrote: Personally while I don't think it's OP or anything, given it costs half a turn.. I think it's silly that if you look for any sort of option to regain FP (outside of gather power) everyone is going to tell you to just spam blue pots rather than use 90% of the FP regain skills that you have to invest actual class skill points/ skill slots to have because it's just more efficient.
this is pretty much my thought process too, blue potions are not so much OP as they are just silly, the momentum investment holds them back a lot. And you'd be doing more of a favor for the item slot by moving it to the same power as regular, once-a-slot items have.
RE: Blue Potions - Poruku - 12-06-2023
Add a capacity talent that buffs the fp restoration of your skills like the alchemy talent does for blue pots