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+--- Thread: 'Housing' in Korvara. (/showthread.php?tid=11240)
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - WaifuApple - 06-23-2024
There's probably always someone who can repurpose it, and the ideal would be that you don't allow people permanent stake over a fixed place so nobody else can do their thing. If, in the worst case scenario we end up back with personal houses the way they used to be there is going to have to be serious limits on them so they're tangible, open spots you can't just close off OOCly or OOCly ban someone from (since even in leadership houses your trespassing would have to be handled IC if you're reasonable about it), and aren't just excuses for people to forgo the existing maps by making entire new locations or villages. Pretty as some of those could be, people aside from eventmins running events should not be subverting the map by creating entire locations that don't exist.
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - Balor - 06-24-2024
My name was evoked.
I spent a lot of money on player housing in G6. I know plenty of people who donated hundreds to Dev for the sake of adding content to the game, whether lore friendly or not. It was a massive investment on the part of the playerbase that in the advent of Korvara has all been forgotten and at this point unseen.
In Korvara I have been absolutely blatant about my selfishness, as have many others. Welsh Ranch is a space meant to represent Raleigh's space in the world. This is a small thing that I feel everyone should be allowed to have. Alvar's longhouse was a home, but it has been used by many others to RP. Many people need to facilitate theater of the mind to compensate for a lack of representation of specific spaces.
Often times relying on EM's to layer custom maps and place down temporary spaces for the intermittent use of the players.
I'd rather people have more options and space to represent themselves, whether by appointment, or trust system.
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - Miller - 06-24-2024
This may seem a bit strongly worded but:
If I want to be perfectly honest; I barely see the difference between G6 and Korvara these days beyond the fact that we actually have GM sanctioned factions run by players with some lore weight to it. Seriously, we have water pits and bar roleplay again as the prime way of getting into the public RP scene with barely any major factional conflicts going on. If anything Korvara just put a huge damper on player agency by taking tools that players could use to make events; out of the hands of the players and into a very select group of players.
If the concern is reality bubbles and 'lore breaking', have a GM crack down on it if it really becomes an issue. Events ran by EMs already tip toe way beyond the line of what I would personally find acceptable within the scope of the lore (In Korv, said lore is mostly written by players!), so I personally can't really see that many new problems showing up beyond maybe a random house with a vending machine or zippers.
The same attitudes perpetuate and groups stick to themselves as per usual if they want to roleplay with specific people and there's honestly not much of a problem with it? If people want to curate their own fun, let em'. It harms absolutely no one because again at the end of the day: If people want to roleplay with their friends, they'll roleplay with their friends: private housing or not; they don't have to roleplay on the game itself. There's already enough incentive to go around in public areas/hubs for RP: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
Frankly speaking, just allow private housing to return with maybe only automated shopkeepers barred. Slap in housing districts for all the major cities, or have specific buildings that anyone can walk into to access their house or pull an SL1 and have the portals to your own home be placed on the overworld temporarily. I'unno, but I genuinely don't see any difference between roleplaying in some random private house or some random corner of the map so may as well.
Quote:Toffee:I think a great example of this is Lavender's House (a building north of the Vale) getting past the filter by being advertised as a neutral meeting ground before becoming just a private player house. I don't know if it's gotten use besides the occasional gathering but it's wild how that made it through.
This is legitimately mostly because the rule for no private housing had been established until after Lavender had gotten their map request. It later just... didn't really get repurposed all that well despite there being plans to.
Quote:Toffee:Something I forgot to mention about the aforementioned house is that not only was it slapped with a bunch of "this is my house" signs but also "you can't enter my house or else you'll trigger magic traps" signs which only reinforces the point. People claiming/getting their own personal, private spaces mapped and then barring it entirely from other people.
This sign had not been updated in years at this point, but even then; the 'traps' in question were only for the crops back when there was no consequence for stealing them without RPing. This has later changed since then.
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - Caboozles - 06-24-2024
(06-24-2024, 04:24 PM)Miller Wrote: Frankly speaking, just allow private housing to return with maybe only automated shopkeepers barred. Slap in housing districts for all the major cities, or have specific buildings that anyone can walk into to access their house or pull an SL1 and have the portals to your own home be placed on the overworld temporarily. I'unno, but I genuinely don't see any difference between roleplaying in some random private house or some random corner of the map so may as well.
I think talking about it, I'd rather see houses be restricted to actual housing. Maybe just make sure there isn't any side-bars where only some people are allowed to keep that sort of RP more public, but otherwise I think a small (8x8? 12x12? 16x16?) room available for people to curate on their own would be pretty fun and not take away too much.
It'd take a bit more curation on the GM side, but I don't think it's a bad idea.
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - Poruku - 06-24-2024
(06-24-2024, 04:24 PM)Miller Wrote: The same attitudes perpetuate and groups stick to themselves as per usual if they want to roleplay with specific people and there's honestly not much of a problem with it? If people want to curate their own fun, let em'. It harms absolutely no one because again at the end of the day: If people want to roleplay with their friends, they'll roleplay with their friends: private housing or not; they don't have to roleplay on the game itself. There's already enough incentive to go around in public areas/hubs for RP: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
This is pretty much my thoughts. You can force people out of public housing, but you aren't going to change how this game and the community works. You can try to force them into doing more public rp, but that's not going to break the private groups. I find it honestly weird that it was so vilified to simply play with an exclusive group of friends. At least back on G6, you weren't harming anyone by doing that, and anyone could do the same thing. Nobody is entitled to anyone's public presence or rp.
I think we would have the chance to have the best of both worlds if there was a bit of enforcement for the private housing to be actually a house in the world in that specific location. So people can have a house, a bar, an inn, or whatever. But preventing people from making massive castles or unrelated maps in the middle of a city.
Currently if I want to roleplay in my house I'm just gonna stand in the street in front of a house and roleplay, and it sucks. But like, come on, I just want to roleplay a private scene. Why did people come to think of that as a bad thing?
I also want to mention that it's ridiculous that 99% of characters in this world are homeless in-character. Everyone is just sleeping in inns, and a shocking amount of people just sleep wherever, in the wilderness or in a cave... Come on man.
But yeah, properly IC housing would be sick. Enforce proper IC and I think it'll add a lot to this world. Just think of how cool it would be to see detailed housing of each different culture? And in a different location we could also have specific spaces that are dedicated to eventmin stuff.
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - Rendar - 06-24-2024
If you give me a 16x16 house. By god will I make it work. Old housing was massive, and (generally), insane. Being able to work to a similar degree with it being 16x16 on Korvara, with extra levels etcbeing placeable? Nice. Especially ESPECIALLY if we can also actually design a combat map using the custom battlefield for the area. (Please. I just want to have 2 maps for my house. The outside of the house and then indoors.)
The people YEARN to create.
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - Autumn - 06-24-2024
I don't really wish to comment too too much but I will at least type some of my thoughts when it comes to this thread. For one I do think that one of the old roles of housing in G6 has been taken over by the mapping team, when it comes to assembling guilds or groups, or hospitals or pubs, those should be viewable in the public eye for all to see, as I do believe those being the congregation of all players on G6 was a bit of a problem sometimes for new players to get into, especially to those who feel anxious about inviting themselves where they feel they aren't wanted. Meiaquar's pub is a good example of an area where a new player can immediately see the activity happening in the game and try to get involved.
But since the mapping team now seems to have these aspects covered, I am much more open to the idea of player housing being actual housing, whether you make an office, a ranch, a townhouse, tent, some cave what have you, these could be set up to work pretty well I feel like, to this end I don't want housing to work exactly like it does in G6, but having somewhere at the end of the day that one of my characters retires to that feels like their own space to share with people is just a good idea at fleshing out tools players can use to express their character's personality.
I don't really think there needs to be any sort of GM wall on this kind of thing either though, I'm fine with houses being about half the size they were with no additional floors, as there are some aspects you simply cannot capture in such small areas, for instance one of the goals of my character Riley is to build her own homestead, which I would reflect in game with such a feature.
On a side note, I'm not sure how exactly people already congregating into private areas means the solution to such a thing would be to make more private areas, I like the idea but this explanation behind it doesn't exactly jive with me either, you just simply can't control where players want to be or who they want to interact with, we would simply need more players for the public gathering areas to be a lot more bustling than they are currently. Really it just tells me there's not enough people wanting to engage with other people, and instead want to stick to their close friends as they will be assured that they can do better storytelling together.
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - Miller - 06-24-2024
(06-24-2024, 07:16 PM)Autumn Wrote: On a side note, I'm not sure how exactly people already congregating into private areas means the solution to such a thing would be to make more private areas.
That's a gross misrepresentation of the point being made but:
The point is that there's legitimately no difference between someone RPing in some random corner of the map without any notifications and in a private house; people will exclude others regardless. Private housing is not a solution to that nor was it presented as one ever by any one in this thread nor is it a problem to be solved. People just sometimes want to RP with solely their friends.
The argument typically against player housing is often 'X/Y will exclude Z'. When that happens regardless of player housing or not, which makes the argument pretty moot.
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - WaifuApple - 06-24-2024
I think people fail to consider that some want to play with their friends in the absence of others, and some just want to play with their friends no matter where it happens. Among those latter people are people who'd end up forming friendships with people they wouldn't otherwise if they were just following their friends into the houses that make up all of their activity.
It doesn't even have to be intentional exclusion, it doesn't have to be malicious. If you don't incentivize people sharing spaces over just being holed up, this place becomes once again super new player unfriendly, as if it wasn't bad enough as is. Some of the people who otherwise would be in these public spaces will just go "Well, people are here so I'll go there instead."
Really don't want to see a return to the days where everyone was in their own custom landscapes talking ill of the public scene as if it was some form of taboo because people have started denying there was an issue ever there.
RE: 'Housing' in Korvara. - Miller - 06-24-2024
(06-24-2024, 08:07 PM)WaifuApple Wrote: Really don't want to see a return to the days where everyone was in their own custom landscapes talking ill of the public scene as if it was some form of taboo because people have started denying there was an issue ever there.
I agree with this actually: I don't want another bout of 'Wow Cellsvich sucks! The arena sucks!', though it does already happen in Korvara to a possibly greater degree considering the things I've seen people say about a few spots of the map in particular, with said spots changing every so oftens.
My opinion mostly differs in that I don't believe player houses were exactly the cause of that, it was mostly a plethora of other factors relating to the community at the time; while player housing didn't help, I personally think they were more a positive than a negative.
Quote:WaifuApple
I think people fail to consider that some want to play with their friends in the absence of others, and some just want to play with their friends no matter where it happens. Among those latter people are people who'd end up forming friendships with people they wouldn't otherwise if they were just following their friends into the houses that make up all of their activity.
It doesn't even have to be intentional exclusion, it doesn't have to be malicious. If you don't incentivize people sharing spaces over just being holed up, this place becomes once again super new player unfriendly, as if it wasn't bad enough as is. Some of the people who otherwise would be in these public spaces will just go "Well, people are here so I'll go there instead."
This is a very valid point as well: I personally feel that with the advent of the four nations and the fact that players have actual tangible impact on said factions, there's already incentive to get out there and interact with people and get involved in a community. But, how would you personally say this detracts from incentivizing people from interacting in public? I frankly believe that people holing up in player houses and roleplaying in a total exclusion zone is not much different from someone roleplaying off game.
Is it because of housing public spaces IE: Bars, intruding upon the agency of main player hubs? I can see an argument for that.