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+--- Thread: Otherworldly strategem (/showthread.php?tid=1132)
Re: Otherworldly strategem - Sarinpa1 - 04-20-2015
because i am horrible with quotes here goes
1. You can't crit a BK.
yes you can. Stack crit, have them not have pretty good counter-crit stats and voila
2. You can't spam PG.
see above
3. Excel doesn't ignore defense, it just makes it less effective.
by less effective you mean almost not at all already at second charge. Then again there are excel fist weapons, accelia etc so its probably true that this doesnt have to do much with ghosthands
Anyway, that doesn't really counter that it isn't a reliable counter againts Sword/Axe/Spear, as it still has a high chance to pass through. As seen in my little math post. So making it even less useful, especialy againts those that know that you're a BK (Since if you cant really dodge and your only way to avoid PG/EI was hope for stalemate. Or have RES along the def in the former case) would pretty much make the class horribly inferior again.
Re: Otherworldly strategem - Chaos - 04-21-2015
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6699#p6699 Wrote:Soapy » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:19 pm[/url]"]1. So the only way to not get completely shut down by one passive literally every BK has is to be a master of many weapons? Sounds healthy for roleplay.
2. The only sword skill worth taking is Sanguine Star, which does as much damage as Turnover without the knockdown, plus Crescent Rook needs a nerf anyway.
1a. Yes, clearly one must master the use of numerous types of weapons, and not take the smarter option of having a single, secondary weapon type under their belt. Especially when everyone and their mothers can use a dagger.
1b. Stalemate still can't completely shut it down, unless you have horrendously bad luck.
1c. From a roleplay angle, if you think you can swing right into the Black Knight's advantage and somehow overcome them, you must be either very brave or very stupid. You would either clash with their weapon or hear a useless THUD coming off their armor. It's like trying to throw gusts at a VA Ghost and expecting them to break through their high magical defenses.
2a. Kensei has enough sword shenanigans to cover tackling a Black Knight, especially if you have the higher CEL. Shinken also provides long-ranged damage, and the dreaded Blazing Shinken setup.
2b. Sounds like spears are still good to go then.
Re: Otherworldly strategem - Rockabye - 04-21-2015
I think the funniest thing about this entire thread is the fact that people are debating whether an item that's supposed to stop abilities that trigger on attack should be stopping an ability that triggers on attack.
Re: Otherworldly strategem - Neus - 04-21-2015
Stalemate does kind of fit into a category of does and doesn't, since it negates the attack, but it triggers when you are targeted for an attack. As for whether or not Ghosthand should stop it, maybe so? The hand slot is rather important and if you're willing to give it up to stop one skill then I think that's okay.
Re: Otherworldly strategem - Sarinpa1 - 04-21-2015
I'm rather worried that ghosthand will become the automatic equipment againts any BK (And given their special properties - IE wearing buncha armor, is common for picking pictures, it will be even easier to tell), And stalemate is its main gimick. And since reliance on riposte in their defensive style of play is negated as well, it'd become very cripling.
Re: Otherworldly strategem - Rendar - 04-21-2015
If they're bothering to wear Ghost Hands to negate that shit, they lose a hands lot. Which is versatility or their conversion gloves. Stalemate is kinda rude as fuck. Though Ghosthand could just affect Stalemate to give it a -25% chance to occur.
Re: Otherworldly strategem - Rockabye - 04-21-2015
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6714#p6714 Wrote:Sarinpa1 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:10 pm[/url]"]I'm rather worried that ghosthand will become the automatic equipment againts any BK (And given their special properties - IE wearing buncha armor, is common for picking pictures, it will be even easier to tell), And stalemate is its main gimick. And since reliance on riposte in their defensive style of play is negated as well, it'd become very cripling.Players can already bypass Black Knight's Stalemate by using a sub-weapon in that slot. Using a Ghosthand simply means they would be able to use their preferred weapon at the efficiency they'd like to, if they prefer that to the versatility of using an additional weapon that can open an entirely new array of skills. This simply makes Ghosthand worth considering over another weapon, while not actually making it "better." I don't see any problem with that, considering the benefits of using a Ghosthand in PvP are already very limited compared to sub-weapons as it is.
Re: Otherworldly strategem - Ryu-Kazuki - 04-21-2015
I'm with Dev on his statement about the importance of the hand slot. All Ghosthands does is bypass on hit effects, it doesn't do much else against BKs, considering your damage is still being reduced by their DEF and other bonuses. It'll just make it so they can't throw a big middle finger to every attack you throw at them all the while pounding on you with Mad Chop spams in the return process.
Also, Chaos, considering the character I have this problem with the most, is a Kensei, I can attest that just being a Kensei isn't a magic ticket to getting around Stalemate.
Re: Otherworldly strategem - Chaos - 04-21-2015
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=6708#p6708 Wrote:Neus » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:19 am[/url]"]Stalemate does kind of fit into a category of does and doesn't, since it negates the attack, but it triggers when you are targeted for an attack. As for whether or not Ghosthand should stop it, maybe so? The hand slot is rather important and if you're willing to give it up to stop one skill then I think that's okay.Except that you can also give up the hand slot to get a weapon that won't be Stalemated. Honestly, it seems like too much of a nerf to Stalemate to let Ghosthand bypass it; instead of people having to work with the consequences of a single weapon type, they can just swing it without a care in the world. While it might be going against the physical tank class, there's enough tricks to make the guaranteed bypass brutal. (Excel weapons, Power Gradation, Ether Invitation, empowered Riposte, Checkmate....) Mind you, most of those skills can be used with weapons that can already completely bypass Stalemate to begin with.
P.S. Kensei is well-equipped with skills that can bypass Stalemate's crap AND get around the Black Knight's defense. How you are unable to work with that is beyond me.
Re: Otherworldly strategem - catabur - 04-21-2015
It's a thing (ghosthands) that disables anything that activates on being hit, so I don't see why not.