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+--- Thread: [QUE/BAL] Dark Water Buildup (/showthread.php?tid=1331)
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Re: [QUE/BAL] Dark Water Buildup - Sarinpa1 - 06-05-2015
"silence op nerf pls" status infliction rate vs status resistance balance fu thread pls create.
"silence op on hexer" well sure let us have strangling etacof I can't use without being a void assassin, equipped with nightflower weapon, or being a kensei. Or having teammates woah. Also hot damn if they cure the silence after I inflict it, I can't strangle them! Unless they were incredibly stupid and remained in range of etacof, despite knowing all well about what I'm gonna do. (Also mages have access even to decent damage without magic. So it's not a complete shutdown, even if you failed to properly strategize.. )
"fuck you tile effect" limit, not remove. Halve its effect. Await verdict on how the new contract stuff is handled in these scenarios. Also, if we really want to look deep into it, summoners are incredibly strong and versatile. This mostly affecting Grand summoners, as far as I know. Silence is sort of a killer againts people that don't have silent prayer. Why not have a hard counter for GS? That said, zero faith is kinda a bummer. (Even through not a killer! You can still build around that.)
We've all seen numerous threads around this shit so i hope people remember by now the common points that I'd be lenghtily explaining rn
did also everyone forget that hexer shit is kinda expensive compared to well, almost everything else.
and the damage isn't all that spectacular anyway.
tl;dr. Stop bwaah-ing and look from the other side of things, suggesting lesser nerfs rather than outright making the skill inferior to everything else.
edit : got damn stop submitting before i post
before any of you get into me contradicting myself
I separate skills having silence inflict and silence as status itself.
Re: [QUE/BAL] Dark Water Buildup - PantherPrincess - 06-05-2015
I don't see anything wrong with it. Its basically sear without the tile damage and instead status effects. As Ranylyn said Sanctuary is there for a reason as well as moving out of its range.
Re: [QUE/BAL] Dark Water Buildup - Sawrock - 06-05-2015
I agree with Panther Princess.
Re: [QUE/BAL] Dark Water Buildup - Chaos - 06-05-2015
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=7584#p7584 Wrote:Soapy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:55 am[/url]"]You're not guaranteed to proc Wraithguard, either - good Hexers get enough status infliction to beat down an Izabe install.Irrelevant; Wraithguard does not face Status Resistance. In fact, if you're talking about Summoners, they should be able to make even a good Hexer sweat. Between a trait and three Sync-Mind passives that give +10% Status Resistance each, even a decent set of RES/LUC will force a Hexer to min-max their Status Infliction unless they want to go through some heavy (if not outright impossible) gambling.
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=7584#p7584 Wrote:Soapy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:55 am[/url]"]It's easy to get Darkness Resistance while having enough Resistance against other elements; Blue Iron Shield or Void Walker alone are enough to handle Darkness while getting a couple other elements covered.
30% Darkness Resistance is a 15% reduction in damage to Hexer spells.
30% Fire Resistance is a 30% reduction in damage to Sear.
Sounds pretty fair considering Evokers get access to more elements, right?
Except you can't fight a Hexer as a mage - this spell removes your ability to fight back.
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=7584#p7584 Wrote:Soapy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:55 am[/url]"]It's not about the damage being too high. It's the fact that it not only does 17 less damage than an 80 Will Evoker spell, but also cripples so many other things, in a long range, large AoE.Crippling effects is what Hexer does best. Comparing them to Evoker is like comparing a vial of deadly poison to a Molotov cocktail; they're quite different in function, and not meant to go on the same scale.
Also, there is far more than just a damage difference of 17 points here. If you were to compare Sear and Black Bubble (both at Rank 5), as an Evoker/Hexer, with the proper -Mancy Talents maxed, you'll find that Sear has 32 points over Black Bubble. That's not a number to scoff at. If that wasn't enough, then let's also factor in Charge Mind, which will completely blow Black Bubble's damage out of the water regardless of which Evoker spell is being cast. Or the Invocations, which get a much larger bonus alongside a %-based damage increase from Greaper.
As for the effects themselves, I'll repeat myself once more: the tile effects can be easily avoided. Slow/Immobilize are completely useless status effects, thanks to every single skill that moves the character. Combined with Sanctuary's anti-tile defense, there is literally no reason for someone to get caught dead in Dark Water.
Silence, as I've said before, relies on Status Infliction in order to happen. If the Hexer doesn't have good SKI or good WIL w/ decent SKI, they will be hard-pressed to inflict a status. It's also next to impossible to inflict Etacof on a player unless you can inflict Silence and then land the Hex within the same turn, because no player in their right mind will allow you to lock in Silence unless it wouldn't bother them.
....Oh, right, there's a few other points I haven't touched on:
"BUT CHAOS IT'LL BECOME A LOOP!!11" That depends on you.
Got a Screamer? Use it to punish.
Got Evoker? Send them scrambling with an Invocation prep.
Some other form of knockback? Clear them out before or after you cure yourself. (See: Kick)
Got Hexer? Make them eat their own medicine.
Silence doesn't bother you? Why are you even complaining.
Have none of these things? Shed those delicious tears as you watch your ill-prepared self either run like hell or get torn to shreds.
"BUT CHAOS MUH SUMMONER!!11" So their Sync-Mind shenanigans get hard-countered now. Sounds fine by me; they can either stack Status Resistance, get a class with skills to counteract Black Bubble, or just summon their Youkai. It's not the end of the world; just find a work-around.
EDIT: Apparently I was mistaken about a second anti-status trait. Regardless, 40% plus stats plus other things isn't something to scoff at.
Re: [QUE/BAL] Dark Water Buildup - Soapy - 06-05-2015
You know what? Nevermind. It's totally, completely balanced.
According to everyone that doesn't touch any magic classes other than Hexer and Priest, and someone that plays the game only slightly more than Dev.
Re: [QUE/BAL] Dark Water Buildup - Neus - 06-06-2015
I think saying it deals 'only 17 less damage than an Evoker spell' is a bit deceptive because you're not factoring in that Evokers typically use Charge Mind for their spells. And one of the benefits of running Dark Resistance versus Hexer spells is that you have resistance for all their spells, which can be a hindrance, because it means they won't be able to hit you with a spell without losing Momentum. Evoker spells are single element and don't have that drawback.