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+--- Thread: Uberload (/showthread.php?tid=1904)
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Re: Uberload - Autumn - 10-20-2015
You lower the bonus damage and it'll get resisted to hell by anyone with a Beldam Aegis, not to mention if they have the un-deadly trio of Sayakana, CoMC and Fortune feather.
I'd agree with the cap on the bonus damage, as many skills get that still.
Re: Uberload - Soapy - 10-21-2015
Alright, let me try and explain this.
The people that stack Lightning resist do so because they stack bonus stats and they know Overload will hit them ridiculously hard.
Adding a cap (that actually keeps it worth using) would pretty much either:
A) Only weaken the spell against what it's meant to be used against.
or
B) Not actually weaken the spell at all, because the cap is high enough to not be (or just barely be) reached.
And, in either of these cases, the damage would still be completely unchanged against people with few, if any, buffs (like the one I'm using as an example in the OP).
Also, keep in mind that none of the skills with a damage cap (out of all three of them I can think of) are actually based on a stat.
Remember the invocation.
Re: Uberload - Sarinpa1 - 10-21-2015
Since the point of this post is very obviously that the bonus damage from Overload will apply even if you're not using any skills or gear that'd raise it. (Stamps, class itself.) I agree with reducing the damage per bonus stat, if it proves too little, boosting bonus damage per rank a little.
Re: Uberload - Autumn - 10-21-2015
After a few tests myself I've concluded that my post may be a bit wrong, as my thought process was that Overload never necessarily got buffed so why would it need a nerf, but I've been thinking about it and did a few damage crunches.
Modded stats are hella common now, and Overload never got accommodated for that, but after these damage numbers I saw, un CM'd spells were used here
The user's Will is 59 in battle, and has a 29 power spell edge weapon.
![[Image: cf498897f8.jpg]](http://puu.sh/kRJGo/cf498897f8.jpg)
the target had 13 resist and +13 to their modded stats, yet an Overload (will + 38) was doing about 52 more damage than a Vydel(Will +54) for simply having very minor modded stats, ones that the target could not help but own (and most people I meet have at least +2-3 in most stats and +7-10 in their main stat)
Therefore I'd actually agree with Soapy here and suggest that it be lowered to +2 instead of +3, and perhaps if this is too much we can always revisit the topic later and see about upping base damages to normal evoker levels if it is too much.
Re: Uberload - MegaBlues - 10-21-2015
Okay math time freals to compare a Mind-Charged Ryemei and regular Overload.
For Ryemei, the damage calculation would be 2.5(Power). For Overload, the damage calculation would be 1.3(Power)+3(Bonus Stats). However, Overload has 10 more rank power than Ryemei at rank 1.
So, for Overload to beat Ryemei, it's 1.3(Power+10) + 3(S) > 2.5(Power). Ignoring Resistances because they all come in at the end and would be removed anyway.
This reduces down to Power < 2.5(Stats) + 11, essentially.
This means that for Overload to beat Ryemei, your total spell power (Read: Will, Tome, Evocation, etc) needs to be -less- than 11, plus more than double their total bonus stats.
This means that, against opponents who do not have tons and tons of stat buffs, Mind Charged Ryemei is a safe bet. If people are getting blown up by Overload, this means that they have way too many stat bonuses, not that Overload is too strong.
EXAMPLE:
This spell caster has 66 boosted will, a 29 power tome, and Evocation, for a total of 105 spell power. Ryemei has a +12 rank bonus at R1, so boost that to 117. Multiply that by 2.5, boom. 292 damage (Before resistances).
They then decide to cast Overload next. Again, 105 spell power, boosted by 22, for a total of 127 spell power. Multiply that by 1.3. 165. Ew.
Taking the difference and dividing by 3, you will find that the opponent will need 42 bonus stat points to match the damage. Overload, by default, costs more FP than Ryemei does (Unless you Arcane Tattoo it), and 42 extra stats is a lot.
So, in the end, Overload isn't overpowered, it's simply the fact that people have extreme boosts to their stats, causing them to jack the damage of Overload up extremely. Overload is the -one- defensive spell Evoker has (Unless you count Sear for tiles or Explosion. But, lol, fire damage), because it passively makes the enemy unable to boost their stats ridiculously high. Which frees them up to equip elemental resist gear, but, still. Overload isn't the issue.
Re: Uberload - Rendar - 10-21-2015
68 RES, 0% Lightning res, 110 enemy WIL, Rank 1 Overload, No CM, 34 extra stats, no active buffs, 29 power tome, Greaper R3. 275 damage.
CM Overload did 589.
(( 75 RES )) Overload with 109(128 if the changed 'race' stats count) extra stats, and Fortune feather activating... I got smacked for 501 damage (( roughly 556 damage ))
(( 75 RES ))With CM Overload, 109 extra stats(128 if the changed 'race' stats count), and Fortune feather activating... I got smacked for 790 (( Roughly 880~ damage. ))
Ryemei Rank 1, 68 res. Same parameters as Initial testing, 93 damage.
CM Rank 1 Ryemei, 68 res. 330 Damage.
So, lets say that MAYBE the enemy doesn't have retardedly HIGH WIL. Like my opponent did because they were the only person I could actually find who had WIL and the stats at the time. His Overload BEFORE bonus stats damage or resistance, was about 209. 311~ with the bonus stats added in, giving it a 1.5x damage increase by the end from simply having BASIC class stats and stamps. The discrepancy in power only got worse and worse the more someone decided to buff. Quite literally, if you have any amount of buffs (or heaven forbid GHOST), you will die. A horrific, painful death. Hey though, it's not all bad! Maybe the Evoker is in melee with you and decides to activate Overload. Well. You got knocked back (and if you were near a solid object, you're no longer in line). You got knocked down... so your options are to either run, or attack. Attacking isn't possible unless you're ranged (which you wouldn't be in melee then), or you have your own attack at range that drags you into melee ( Ex. Hanging ). If you can manage to hit them, you stand a decent chance to break the invocation. If you run, however... You won't get away. Because for 10 movement, they can teleport 7 or 8, then use the rather LARGE range of Overload to zap you.
So. if you buff at ALL. You die instantly.
Sure you can build lightning resist, but that still doesn't stop the fact that you will get shrekt by overload.
So, in some rights Mega, Ryemei is WORSE than overload. However know that simply anyone can tack on overload to their build for a one-shot cannon.. simply because of how much damage it does without any will needed. If the person actually bothers to use even one buff.. like say.. Eastern Wind at best. Thats +18 stats. or 54 extra damage. Which would make it equal to Ryemei, except Ryemei can also crit... But wait. What if they use more than one buff? Or, heaven forbid they ever install, like I did, and get 75~ or so stats instantly. If they don't use any singular stat buff whatsoever, Overload is weaker than CM Ryemei, LIKE IT SHOULD BE. However the disparity is whenever Overload can literally oneshot someone if they use stat buffs. I have 475 HP (450 with those extra stats instead). The installed Overload killed me dead...
If you'd rather the numbers of WIL be at 'more reasonable values' then you can bother to actually come and test it with me rather than theorizing math.
Re: Uberload - MegaBlues - 10-21-2015
I'm not really sure what the point is, but it seems like you're saying that Ryemei < Overload < CM Ryemei < CM Overload, unless the enemy massively boosts their stats, in which Overload completely destroys them. Which is kind of the point of the spell.
And if you spend 15 Momentum to deal 600 damage, that's 120 damage, before resistances, per 3M. Which lines up with most melee, as far as I'm aware. And also has the caveat of elemental damage.
so, yeah. break their invocation, don't give yourself 60~ bonus stats by installing, silence them.
seriously think about just how much 109 bonus stats is
Re: Uberload - Rendar - 10-21-2015
Except I'm saying that simply even doing so much as "Man I need some extra SKI/CEL to hit them!" from an eastern wind.. or giving themself a buff like... synchro summon... or Ghost's low hp buff. or Lantern Bearers shit. Or Sanctuary. Or a number of other things that give stats.
Installing, mind you, shouldn't be "instantly kill me plz". It shouldn't and you know that Also; mind you this was 120 damage per 3 M.. with me having SIXTY EIGHT resistance. If a melee attacker was going against someone with 70-80 DEF... you know what'd happen to their DPS?
It'd tank, it would plummet horrendously. Why? Because 600 for 15 momentum can't be compared to 5 hits every 15 Momentum. There is a massive difference.
One takes your RES into account once. The other? It takes it into account Five seperate times. Which means their damage gets dunked on. Hard. So, lets say that it DID in fact do 657 damage for that 15 momentum. Divide that by 5. 131.4 damage per 3 Momentum. If my RES were to apply to each and every one of them, do you know what that'd be? 63.4 damage. Or, 63 per 3 momentum. Golly gee, now it's starting to look REALLY like what happens to people that try to melee giant tanky walls that can't exactly be crit.
So, if you want to say 600 damage per 15 momentum is fine, sure go ahead. However do not say it lines up with melee's damage against a steel wall. Because it isn't.
PS: Those 30 stat points are without eating food. So if someone eats the level 1/2 food item that gives +1/2 to all stats.. they're gonna take 9/18 more stats worth of damage from overload