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+--- Thread: Ice skate (/showthread.php?tid=2912)
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Re: Ice skate - Chaos - 07-05-2016
"Spoops" Wrote:If a verglas sticks to verglas tree stuff, they should be able to combo off of 5m anyway with chimera style, infact it's even more useful to them because it also has Knockdown, you could crawling spikes from max range, ice skate into somebody and then face stomp them, with chimera style.And what makes it so overpowered at 1M? In fact, I consider a 2M version to be absolutely horrible at combo power outside of Verglas; our current version of Crane Hop would do better with less setup!
Or they could crawling spikes, cold front them into the ice point, and then ice skate into them for KD
So really, it being 2m doesn't hurt Verglas itself either, and allows combo-ability from other classes.
So far, you've only presented the idea of '1M movement is outrageous by default', which is a logical fallacy and, considering Voidgate, a flawed premise. I do not see anything that would make a 1M Ice Skate out to be an extraordinary combo enabler, nor anything greater than someone who knows how to use Voidgates.
Re: Ice skate - Autumn - 07-05-2016
Keep in mind it is also a knockdown, the only other 2m knockdown in the game is charge bash, the reason as to why 1m would be overpowered is because knockdown.
Re: Ice skate - Chaos - 07-05-2016
"Spoops" Wrote:Keep in mind it is also a knockdown, the only other 2m knockdown in the game is charge bash, the reason as to why 1m would be overpowered is because knockdown.Correction: Charge Bash, with a 10~50% chance to proc, assuming you spent 1~5 SP respectively into another skill that requires Soldier as the Main Class before you can even go for it.
However, even then, you only need to hit Charge, (run up to someone) and then Bash for the dice to roll. A very simple maneuver.
Conversely, not only do you have to set up ice tiles for Ice Skate, you have to move a certain number of tiles before the Knockdown triggers. Which means that not only is someone that isn't on a straight line from you going to avoid the KD, anyone who's keen on keeping themselves close-by will make the KD activation a pain in the ass to trigger. Any in-house combos that could bypass this, assuming 1M Ice Skate, would only leave you with 1M left at best.
Re: Ice skate - Autumn - 07-05-2016
It's very easy to form ice tiles, 2m itself combos into a lot of things but doesn't make it overwhelming, I don't really need to argue much further on it except for examples like Winged Serpent(which is still a problem) and crane hop, with 2m it means that ice skate will be able to combo into critical hits and verglas skills, anything else might be difficult to balance around.
Knockdown is one of the strongest status effects in the game, if not -the- strongest save for stun.
I'm mostly just saying this due to how easy it is to setup ice tiles, giving it 1m would only create problems I find, 2m allows it to be a niche pick that works in certain setups so that it's not overwhelming (See: Crane hop)
Giving it 2m cost still makes it strong enough to have in your build as a verglas, and lets be honest, if you're using verglas, you're probably using it for offensives(or ice theme), otherwise you'd use monk for the defensive capability it provides.
Re: Ice skate - Shujin - 07-05-2016
I agree with spo here, 2M puts it in a good to use position, because of stuff like chimera. It let´s you actually combo into things.
being able to upkeep your ice field, Especially when the changes with the reduced FP costs for certains skills like Expand ice come in, Isn´t that difficult.
I often find myself at 1 M when using my combos, but when I think that I could just skate away, and force my enemy having to move up to me(Probably even over a huge field of ice) sounds pretty strong. Not sure how good that works in practice. *shrugs*
I don´t mind if you put it on 1M but hey, I think it would make the skill overbearing.
Re: Ice skate - Lolzytripd - 07-05-2016
I'd be willing to accept 2m as the cost for Ice skate If
Icepoint guard,ice point greaves are brought down to 2 as well
Re: Ice skate - Kameron8 - 07-06-2016
I still believe 3m is fine, not every skill has to be insanely powerful. 2m is workable, and would actually see combat use, 1m creates situations where a Verglas can attack then skate away after they've dealt damage. Based on our experiences with the old Felidae passive, the old version of Crane Hop, the current iteration of Leaping Lizard + Winged Serpent, and Skyburn + Winged Serpent, I feel relatively confident when I say it's probably not a good idea to stick it at 1m.
I see a lot of discussion equating this to Voidgates, as well. They are inherently unequal, as voidgates require you to possess 3 momentum to move for a reduced cost. Giving Ice Skate an up front 1 momentum cost allows for a 'free' disengage if tiles exist; it'd be like allowing Void Assassins to poof away after swinging two or three times.
Re: Ice skate - Rendar - 07-06-2016
Ah. That is a pretty fair point.
I can see it sticking at 2m.
There was a bit of a thing Spoops and I were discussing that we'll flesh out later, but this'd be a good first step in the right direction.