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+--- Thread: Youkai stat balancing (/showthread.php?tid=2981)
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Neus - 07-13-2016
Well, don't forget that Youkai also have access to a lot of global stat boosts, such as affinities, encourage, etc. And that one summoner can have a boatload of Youkai at their disposal.
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Autumn - 07-13-2016
Its not enough, those stat boosts don't fix that the youkai die too fast to make themselves useful, increasing their stats with the affinities/encourage does not really help their meager VIT, my Kilkenny doesn't have enough FP to use more than 2 cats claws, my legume isn't tanky enough to stand around and be a nuiscance, my seiyruu doesn't really tank too much either, given that's his job. my 3 dragons don't do damage, my Izabe can't survive a single hit, let alone 2..there's several problems that come from them just having low stats in general, and the the FP costs are too high to maintain more than 3, why run summoner when you can do everything yourself but better for marginally less FP per turn?
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Ranylyn - 07-13-2016
Quote: my Kilkenny doesn't have enough FP to use more than 2 cats claws
Youkai skill/spell FP costs don't increase anymore like they used to. At level 1, Kilkenny has 10 FP and Cat Claw has a listed cost of 5, and that's the evoke cost; it only costs 3 for the Kilenny. This means that at level 1, it can use 3 Cat Claws, and the Cat Claw cost never increases. Therefore, unless Cat Claw is bugged, the only conclusion this leads me to is...
Have you all even tried Youkai since the Reckoning, or are you just looking at their stats and whining? Because let's be honest, I had the exact same reaction when I looked at Youkai, post-reckoning, but then I used one and it surpassed expectations.
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Rendar - 07-13-2016
Ranlyn.
You know their FP costs increase with youkai level. Right?
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Autumn - 07-13-2016
"Ranylyn" Wrote:Quote: my Kilkenny doesn't have enough FP to use more than 2 cats claws
Youkai skill/spell FP costs don't increase anymore like they used to. At level 1, Kilkenny has 10 FP and Cat Claw has a listed cost of 5, and that's the evoke cost; it only costs 3 for the Kilenny. This means that at level 1, it can use 3 Cat Claws, and the Cat Claw cost never increases. Therefore, unless Cat Claw is bugged, the only conclusion this leads me to is...
Have you all even tried Youkai since the Reckoning, or are you just looking at their stats and whining? Because let's be honest, I had the exact same reaction when I looked at Youkai, post-reckoning, but then I used one and it surpassed expectations.
Well before we throw assumptions around, no I did not look at the FP costs of evokes, whether that is intended or not is beyond me, however, you are taking just 1 comment from the rest of the problems and twisting it and trying to paint youkai like they're in a good spot right now when they can barely even function.
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Ranylyn - 07-13-2016
"Rendar" Wrote:Ranlyn.
You know their FP costs increase with youkai level. Right?
I just told you, it does not work like that anymore. And considering how much youkai FP costs used to be, it's a MASSIVE change that deserves consideration.
Why did I single that one fact out? Because it shows that the youkai have not been adequeately tested.
You want change? You want to make youkai better? Provide battle data. Analyze them. Learn them. Dev won't listen to kneejerking.
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Rendar - 07-13-2016
They've always worked like that. If they don't anymore, that sounds like a bug, since there was nothing in the update logs that I can find that states otherwise.
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Ranylyn - 07-13-2016
"Rendar" Wrote:They've always worked like that. If they don't anymore, that sounds like a bug, since there was nothing in the update logs that I can find that states otherwise.
![[Image: f40543c43031121b6699e2bfa79e02b4.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/f40543c43031121b6699e2bfa79e02b4.png)
FP Scaling costs down for evoke skills in the Great Reckoning patch notes.
EDIT: Now that this topic has died down a bit, which I hope means things are having a proper look taken at them, I'd like to say that no, not every Youkai is in a passable spot. I just wanted to get everyone thinking. I know my personal reaction to seeing the new youkai stats was "the hell is this!?" I even posted in a thread about youkai stats being "broken" since the reckoning. So I just wanted to help get everyone on the same page. From my experience, a great many youkai are in a better spot than they were pre-update - but some are indeed in need of tweaks.
Izabe, for example, has hundreds of FP and spends 2 per Fairy Lance, so it can be a near-permanent Artillery Unit. With it's long range, it's pitiful HP makes sense, as it does not need to take the risks that something with a much shorter range would. The low HP makes it succeptable to map-wide attacks, and a tempting target for players in PVP, which may seem detrimental at first glance, but if you think about it, is actually fair; if a player disengaged from the Summoner to attack Izabe directly, it shouldn't take multiple rounds to drop Izabe when it could simply be unsummoned and placed elsewhere to have wasted the attacker's time. If you're trying to melee with your Izabe, it deserves to get dropped.
However, several youkai that are in bad spots HAVE been mentioned - such as Legume and Kilkenny. Basically, to summarize it in general, Youkai without elemental scaling are presently not in a good spot, considering the nature of how the Youkai scaling now works. Is it worth levelling Kilkenny still so you can Cat Claw for 30 FP off your opponent? Sure, why not, if you have the Youkai slot. Is it worth actually keeping it summoned as a primary comrade in battle? No. No it is not; Cat Claw only does Kilkenny's Level in damage (According to the description; I don't have a well-levelled one anymore, and this was too short notice to go grind one up to test) and statwise, it really IS lackluster; it only has one benefit and that benefit is attacking FP. And while I can appreciate each youkai having it's own gimmick, this really does seem like a waste of 17 FP per round.
In particular, Youkai I am concerned about are:
- Kilkenny (Slash damage lacks proper scaling, so it's only gimmick is attacking FP)
- Phase Python (I forget it's scaling but it's a safe assumption it's similar to Kilkenny's)
- Legume (Ingrain just doesn't cut it in the new system since damage is generally higher, and Demon Plant doesn't save it)
- Firefox (Seeker Flame is unfortunately kind of a joke compared to other youkai abilities)
- Lilu (It really only has Charm going for it; it has no means of causing much damage, so it can basically be ignored in PVP. It's really for evoking and that's about it.)
Generally, those with proper elemental scaling start off pretty weak (Hatsu especially; at level 1, it has 0 guile for it's Acid Jet, this is hilarious) but due to the multipliers on the new scaling formula, they all get better. Much, much better. Their normal attacks may quickly become nigh useless, but their skills now cost very little so they can be used often and for good effect. It's not an exaggeration to say that many of them are in fact better in this new system than they were before. But, of course, not all of them, as mentioned above.
My personal thoughts on the issue?
1) Take a look at the stats and skills of the youkai I listed as concerns and compare them to other youkai, and make some tweaks accordingly to bring them up to that standard.
2) Maybe lower the FP scaling on the upkeep, just a bit. Not down to the old 5/turn, obviosuly, but 17 is a bit much for Youkai that don't get tactician so they're basically only good for one skill/spell per turn. Maybe something like 10/turn at 60?
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Raigen.Convict - 07-19-2016
Currently with the tests i'm running on seven different youkai, I'll say this, they definitely all need more vitality, the other stats (SO FAR) seem fine, but vitality is a must if they want to be useful. enemies their same level have twice to three times more hp...And more skills to boot.
EDIT: Personally, Drowned woman's HP values are okay, it seems the most balenced of any of them due to its physical resistance and actually decent (for a summoned ally) HP as well as great damage. And as has been stated before, when you get the time, a new contract list to reflect the new stats would be appreciated.
Re: Youkai stat balancing - Autumn - 07-19-2016
After doing some extensive testing, their damage is fine, however, their survivability is bar none, Vitality/Defense/RES across the board is too low for them.