+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Magic, The Suffering (/showthread.php?tid=3380)
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Exxy - 09-03-2016
"Exxy" Wrote:. . . at least in some avenues, before someone comments on examples that are otherwise fine. . .
So glad to see this was ignored, now that we're past "Sear is bad" can we talk about more essential things?
-Considering Exgalfa was strong enough pre-buff and was capable of easy one-shots so long as you didn't stack elemental resists and Resistance to the point you knew it was coming waaaay ahead of time, (which elemental resists are more limited now without a CoMC - which people continue to de-value in conversations despite the Resist! proc and obvious damage reductions being a godsend), I imagine it's just a bit more gruesome now.
-An Overload that can critically hit in a game where the amount of stat allocations is nearly the same (unless you pour into Aptitude) sounds interesting; interesting in a bad way. I've heard people easily one-shotting others and although I don't have numbers (because no one EVER provides numbers when they brag) I imagine this is also worth looking into at the very least.
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Autumn - 09-03-2016
Overload will usually one shot a vampire who has 30-40+ in bonus stats, otherwise when going against normal amounts of DR and lightning resistance it hits for like 600-700 on a charge minded overload, that is a lot of damage but overall I think it's fine since thats how invocations should hit, extremely hard on a CM'd invocation.
That being said, I think the bonus damage from stats should be halved.
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Rendar - 09-03-2016
600-700 damage for a D rank invocation isn't something that should be happening.
Just as an FYI.
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Autumn - 09-03-2016
What makes you say that? Its a minimum of 15 momentum spent.
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Lolzytripd - 09-03-2016
well if a normal spell is allowed to do 200 damge, 400 when charged, and invocation d ranked gets to do 400-500 and 600-800 charge mind.
the issue is them doing this much after resistance/elemental resistance.
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Rendar - 09-03-2016
Lightning is a mostly uncommon element to get resistance to outside of Rubber gear (Cloth type), Beldam Aegis (Shield), ComC (5-15% armour), and sanctity.
Now, before when overload didn't have the ability to crit your face off, it did a hefty amount of damage, but was survivable through. Overload shouldn't be the "okay, I win now" button. No class should have that. Especially whenever invocations are now unbreakable and the only way to stop them is with a silencing ability, which screamer can counter (and then HSDW can insta-gib you still). If we're going to be fine with Overload dealing this much damage, it needs it's range reduced to 3 tiles. It's like. What. 7 or 8 right now? It's kind of insane.
Redgull getting a buff and making pretty much all lightning shit in evoker/mage crit might've been a mistake considering +11 lightning attack and +3 (or 4???) LUC. It creates POWERHOUSE 1v1 annhilation spells, that Evoker had an issue with (and got nerfed for) before. If Overload gets nerfed, I'd like to see one of a few things (also 15 momentum that you can prep a decent chunk of before your enemy gets to you)
A) Reduced Range
B) Lower the "Power into pain" multiplier.
C) Give it recoil damage, because everybody loves a callback or
D) Reduce it's overall damage scaling to be a bit less extreme, due to the fact that it can ass-blast people.
A makes it more close range, and doesn't make it quite so overbearing.
B makes it less murder on everyone, and makes its damage lower overall.
C makes your power also become painful. Just something like half damage dealt (or even a quarter) to give incentive NOT to blow them up.
D just makes it's damage less overall, and makes the "power into pain" portion more relevant in destroying people.
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Autumn - 09-03-2016
Arena combatant with 40 RES and a seperate arena combatant with 44 defense, so the defensive stats were about equal in this test, weapons being used were a rebelling ampeol and an abberation spear, the test character in question is a spellblade who is specced fully into lightning based damage, dealing relatively equal amounts of physical and magical damage, That character has about 70(81 in battle) lightning attack too, and 40 GUI, so lightning criticals were 1.5x, 1.6x with fulgarmancy.
Overload Test:
That leads up to 449 damage on the overload before critical hit, and 719 on critical hit to a moderately RES heavy target from a character who has built FULL damage.
Fleur critical hit test
With full damage spec on the abberation spear I'm able to achieve 635 damage in the same momentum spent.
So again, the damage from the bonus stats could be halved, and thats all I could forsee being good, overall Overload is being overly exaggerated here because it can shut down a vampire, and you know, holy already does that too, holy critical hits in 15 momentum will do more damage than overload as well..
Sderg you don't even play the game anymore, please go ahead and get your facts straight.
What is the issue other than bonus stat scaling?
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Rendar - 09-04-2016
A) That 635 in the 'same amount of damage' requires you to be in point blank almost the entire time with the target. Which means that you're in range to get countered.
B) 9 Momentum (Hell, even 12 if you're good) of the Overload combo is easily doable at near the beginning of the fight, whenever your opponent is far away. If you can get distance? Tada, you can insta-gib them for what is effectively 3-7 momentum. It's a powerful opener that will make combat with an evoker turn into the "DO I RUN TO THEM OR LET THEM KEEP BUFFING?"
It isn't fun for anyone.
Also??? Arena combatants don't have bonus stats nearly as crazy as players do (and remember, 40 res is 40% DR). that would kill most every player, and would especially kill vampires. Players, generally, have at least 30~ more stats than arena combatants from their gear/classes/class bonuses/stamps/etc. 30*5 is 150. So, you need to really factor in that extra damage. Lowering the bonus damage might make it more manageable, but it's still an insta-gib in 1v1 that will make it have the same issues that it did prior (which was "GOD DAMNIT WHY IS THIS IN THE GAME?!"
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Akame - 09-04-2016
Comparing auto-hit magic to hit-checking/crit-checking damage isn't really a good argument (Note, sometimes people have to use hit-buffs and crit-buffs to attempt to get damage like that @Spoops).
No spell should have the ability to one-hit someone unless they obviously have low RES.. Really not looking forward to the return of 3-4 rounds spars against magic if something doesn't change, honestly..
Re: Magic, The Suffering - Snake - 09-04-2016
"Tin Foil" Wrote:M.TYPE - STANDARD Arena Combatant takes 261 Fire magical damage.I believe Searxplosion combo is too strong, true. I'll give you that. Jesus christ. No 'basic' spells should do as much damage as a damn evocation IMO.
Brightly-armored Hyattr's turn.
M.TYPE - STANDARD Arena Combatant recovered 3 FP.
Brightly-armored Hyattr's turn.
--- ROUND 2 ---
Brightly-armored Hyattr recovered 3 HP.
Brightly-armored Hyattr recovered 7 HP.
Brightly-armored Hyattr recovered 3 FP.
M.TYPE - STANDARD Arena Combatant takes 208 Fire physical damage.
M.TYPE - STANDARD Arena Combatant takes 108 Fire magical damage.
Status Infliction: 143.2 VS Status Resistance: 48.7
M.TYPE - STANDARD Arena Combatant was inflicted with Burn!
M.TYPE - STANDARD Arena Combatant takes 208 Fire physical damage.
M.TYPE - STANDARD Arena Combatant takes 208 Fire physical damage.
M.TYPE - STANDARD Arena Combatant takes 208 Fire physical damage.
"Akame" Wrote:Comparing auto-hit magic to hit-checking/crit-checking damage isn't really a good argument (Note, sometimes people have to use hit-buffs and crit-buffs to attempt to get damage like that @Spoops).
No spell should have the ability to one-hit someone unless they obviously have low RES.. Really not looking forward to the return of 3-4 rounds spars against magic if something doesn't change, honestly..
As for D-Rank evocations? If you silence a mage while they're casting, GG WP they have to break the invocation to try again after curing their ultimate counter. If not? good game, mister thunder-rod, enjoy the instakill. It was always like this before Screamer nation attacked.
What pisses me off is just that Screamer costs 1M and cures silence even if they're Etacof'd, so even if you silence a HSDW'd mage, they use screamer, then double-tap the evocation as you're now in point blank (if VA with cutthroat) or in range (if you used Absolute Fear or Black Bubble) and PSSHHUUUH--- 999 lightning godlike damage!! on you anyway.
We could get Screamer to become 2M, and a tone down on the HP damage to 5% main hand/10%
What I think in the end about the absurd damage of mages for now? This is completely fine and nothing but one thing needs to be changed here. Just nerf this screamer nonsense, I mean, really? 10-20% physical HP damage is not even the slightest hurtful compared for what they can dish out next turn, or even in the same turn because this costs 1M and we're good to go.