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+--- Thread: Tactician Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=3503)
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Re: Tactician Discussion - Grandpa - 10-11-2016
I would prefer going down to 6 and just dealing with that. With the number of skill slots people can get now and the number of skills that are in the game, I'm sure you can find something else to do than use the exact same move a second time. All of these changes would fit the new system well, I think.
Re: Tactician Discussion - Lolzytripd - 10-11-2016
6 only works in an eviroment where all skills cost 3 and we subscribe to the 2 things per turn lifestyle
Charge, a intrinsic part of soldiers playstyle
costs 1m increases move distance, and grants bonus damage/effects to soldier skills if you move
move costs 3m
with 6m you could never use charge as intended.
for better or worse Dev has balanced the game around 7m standard momentum, It would be better and much simpler to change player momentum to 7 from 6 and remove tactician.
Also remember don't look at it from a pvp vacuum. If you set momentum straight up to 7 monsters (which are balanced with their base 6 by having 1.5x the stats a player would) would make pve hell. If you cut momentum down to 6 and only rebalance skills to be useful you unbalance pve.
for the sake of dev's sanity, time spent balancing, resources that could be spent elsewhere , whatever modicum of balance we have, and god damn simplicity just make players =7m base monster= 6m base, end day
Re: Tactician Discussion - Soapy - 10-11-2016
Changing tactician to be innate does nothing but free up a trait point and encourage people to use autohits even more (see: not build any ski at all).
Removing tactician is not about getting rid of the trait, it's about getting rid of 7 momentum.
7m was basically required before, where you might have room for 2 or 3 attack skills that scale with a stat you use, but now that everyone has twice as many skill slots, and skills scale on whatever your weapon does... and most people still spam the same skill twice per round anyway?
Tactician can go, and take that 7th point of momentum with it. It's work to change it around since nearly everything else is balanced around this, as stated in the OP, but if those things were handled it would most definitely be a welcome change.
Re: Tactician Discussion - Lolzytripd - 10-11-2016
The thing about going down to 6 momentum max is that it limits how many momentum gimmicks can be made/played around with
chimera stance and Reaver work in different ways to allow more bang for your momentum. With seven momentum a Verglas gets one 1 skill for 3m and two additional from a different tree for 2m(still at full power).
Reaver allows additional soldier and Reaver skills at reduced momentum exponentially down to 1m, allowing for up to 4-5 skills maybe more of if you get a critshinken off.
if we go down to 6m verglas is broken, Soldier is broken, anything involving using 4m breaks your turn, Critbuilds get more power (they don't need it),
You'd need to remove resist because it would be too strong,( yeah lets just remove a whole damn mechanic from the game )
Final argument we need 7m because without double movement, the game is absolute hell
Re: Tactician Discussion - Grandpa - 10-11-2016
Pretty sure all of what you're talking about has been covered already.
Also, get the talent that gives you more move at the beginning round if you need to do so. You don't need double move.
Re: Tactician Discussion - Lolzytripd - 10-11-2016
Critical Hit Tracking
Quote:Critical hit tracking would need to be changed to keep classes synergizing with eachother, dagger dance allows rogues to branch out into non-duelist promotions and yet keep their critical hit momentum, same applies for anyone else.Unacceptable would make crits the momentum kings they formerly were
Critical hits would need to give 2m per swing base
Quote:Fleur
Would stay just about the same, but instead of being able to only proc once on one enemy per round, instead it should only proc once per round total, to prevent too much momentum being gained from having multiple enemies around you.
doesn't make sense to buff normal momentum gain and nerf fluer harder, fluer is currently capped to two procs per turn, once per weapon, once per enemy, requiring two enemies and two weapons to gain both.
Quote:Charge, Shukuchi.yay we run into our first real problem with 6 momentum, so lets ignore it and just bury our heads in the sand and make it 0m
These skills improve your movement ability immensely for 1m, which is a fair trade off, but with 6m that'd be meh because you'd be left at 2m after you move, defeating the purpose of something like heaven kick or charging strike.
These skills would need to become 0m, but have a cooldown of 2 rounds to compensate for their power.
Quote:Kensei Skillsnone of these skills were good enough to get a cooldown. also reducing their momentum to work in the 6m environment har har.
All of these skills would need to become 3m with 2 round cooldowns, however, holding a katana reduces that cooldown by 1.
Quote:Crane Hopits more of the fixing what isn't broken syndrome
Personally I think this skill would be fine being 1m again if tactician was removed as a trait, so this is more of a complete buff
Quote:Chimera Stance
The Verglas skill that allows you to combo effectively, a simple fix to this skill would be giving it something similar to reaver's combination fighter.
This skill would need to reduce the momentum cost by 1 for each step (minimum 1) so that it'd be 3/2/1 momentum for a verglas combo.
And some minor tweaks finally, skills that'd just need to be tweaked a little bit.
now heres something that only works with a minimum of 7 momentum, It has a unique interaction with the different verglas trees, so instead of trying to think of a way it could work the same as it currently does, lets just copy another system, Generic af day.
except most verglas combos wouldn't work if you had to proc it like reaver since most combos involve 1 skill from either the top or middle tree, followed by two from the same tree.
also you didn't even mention how reaver won't work, making copying it pointless, 3>2>1 all 6 momentum used, reavers main gimmick was gettin 4-5 skills off if you could sneak a crit in with shinken.
Quote:Flying Dagger for 0m, 2 round cooldown.more reducing stuffs momentum cost to work with 6m.
Salvage for 0m, no cooldown.
Hand Trigger for 0m, no cooldown (maybe 1)
Power Gradiation for 3m, 2 round cooldown.
Nitrogen Drop for 3m, 2 round cooldown.
Void Gate will need to refund 3m upon being used on another void gate to teleport.
HSDW's tracking would need to be normal again, costing 6m instead of 7m total.
If anything should be changed to work for 6m
Reduce the movement actions cost to 2m
Most offensive skills stick to a 3m cost
all 2m skills reduced to 1m base (sharpen warningshot ect.)
Some buff skills reduce to 2m
1m skills stay 1m becuase with 1m movement and attack they can still work ( 1m charge 2m move 3m left to attack or skill, 1m shukuchi 3m heavenkick, 2m left to mover or attack)