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+--- Thread: Lunar Berserkism (/showthread.php?tid=3792)
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Re: Lunar Berserkism - Lolzytripd - 12-05-2016
perhaps status infliction needs to be more swingy
IE theres never 100% infliction or resist.
cap it at 75%max and 25% min infliction rates.
Re: Lunar Berserkism - Exxy - 12-05-2016
"Spoops" Wrote:Hexer's status infliction rates seem a little more than fine to me, a good build with SAN is able to resist status effects sometimes and a build with both FAI and SAN can always resist status effects, for reference my elf currently has 250 status RES and can't really be inflicted very often or even at all.
Combating one outlier with another does nothing to fix the issue(s) that have been brought up so far in the thread. I'm a bit concerned how you achieved such a high resist without sacrificing Enchantment Slots and making use of Stacked Fairy Ring (even then I'm sure I'm leaving other means of stacking resists out of the equation).
EDIT: Oh right, Prevention Potions. I forgot those.
As for the comment regarding Hexer:
-You have 30% taken off of the opponent's Status Resist just for the enemy attacking you (which dealing damage is the only way of winning a fight mechanically) if you have 3 SR in an Innate that's a universal grab considering what Hexer does well is based off of Infliction Chance.
-You have +10% Status Infliction (20% if using Cursed/Doomed weapons), which adds to the gap you create in-between your Infliction Rate and their Status Resist.
-You also have access to Dark Water Pools (from Black Bubble) which can make Faith's involvement in the equation completely null.
So by this point, you've created a 40-50% gap >and< removed part of the Defense Value against Status Infliction from the Starting Values (as in the stats on your Character Status Screen). Which leaves you with only Sanctity (and other means previously mentioned); and well, this is fine in conventional builds (from my experience you can typically achieve around a 100% with Soft Capped Skill and little-to-no Will investment) because you come out with a 50/50 shot unless they're a Mage Archetype (who typically has at least some Will, so let's say 70/30 instead - without Fairy Ring or Enchantments to aid you).
Then if you add into the fact they're a Vampire with 200+ Essence (I recall 220 being possible from certain sources, but let's stick with 200 in this example), so that's +10 to WIL (which most likely hasn't hit soft cap yet as not many push it beyond 30, so that's +10%) and SKI (about +16% after Soft Cap hits, assuming you're not stacking even more into SKI - which isn't uncommon for these type of buids, we could throw in DK too since that's in Hexer's Skill Tree but for the purpose of this post I won't).
I'd still like to see some type of rebalance being made for this (as in Vampires and S. Inflict VS S. Resist since we've already made points to address it in the thread) and not just for Status Infliction (+Hexer) Versus Status Resistance; because the buffs Vampires receive is absurd after you look into all the possibilities (which is why I imagine this type of thread hasn't been made yet; people are too busy having a lot of fun with how easily you can Stat Stack with it and reap the benefits). If nothing actually comes of this, I would at least appreciate the alternative Lolzy suggested (but please try to look into better solutions before you use Lolzy's as a band-aid).
Re: Lunar Berserkism - Autumn - 12-05-2016
Hexer is literally fine you're just wrong, that elf doesn't even use prevention potions or a crucifix, they just get that high status resist with fairy ring, warding enchant on their shoes only and high SAN/FAI, they don't even stack all of the possible status resists in the world, infact the only issue I have with status resist is that humans, mechanations and corrupted get screwed on it cause they dont want to build SAN at all, so the removal of Status Res from RES really hurt those characters.
Besides if a Hexer can't status inflict they're basically useless, just stop.
Re: Lunar Berserkism - Lolzytripd - 12-05-2016
Which is why a world where whichever is the higher number is the thing that 100% happens is bad
I have more inflict than your resist, suck it and burn
I have more resist , suck it nothing happened
it should be CHANCE BASED
Always a chance to fail
Always a chance to succeed
Re: Lunar Berserkism - Ranylyn - 12-05-2016
^ Going along with what Lolzy said, because it's straight up Inflict-Resist=Chance it's hilariously dumb that early on, you'll see numbers like 10 infliction vs 8 resist = 2% chance of status. Why does a level 60 vs Level 60 have a fundamentally higher chance (Unless someone built for resist) than a Level 1 vs a Level 1? "But Rany, who the fuck uses status at low levels besides Vampires, anyways?" To name a few, how about Wyverntouched, whose racial is a poison-inflicting bite? What about papillions or even just curates (For those who haven't realized how trash tier Calm usually is) and archers?
I think the formula itself could use a rework. Perhaps a flat 50% baseline, modified by a percentage of the stats that currently contribute to it, also modified by level difference (Meaning a level 60 can status a level 50 easier than the opposite, etc.) Modifiers like Payback and Fairy Ring can probably remain unchanged.
Current Formula: Stats+Mods - Stats+Mods = Flat % Chance, which can potentially be something like 200% or -100%.
New formula: 50 + 1/4 or 1/5 Stats + (Full) Mods - 1/4 or 1/5 Stats + (Full) Mods = Something a lot more centralized and still offers benefits to characters who build San/Fai while not completely dicking over the races that don't want San. (Seriously, it sucks major balls to be Human/Mechanation/Corrupted these days... especially corrupted.)
Just a rough thought.
Re: Lunar Berserkism - Exxy - 12-05-2016
"Spoops" Wrote:Hexer is literally fine you're just wrong, that elf doesn't even use prevention potions or a crucifix, they just get that high status resist with fairy ring, warding enchant on their shoes only and high SAN/FAI, they don't even stack all of the possible status resists in the world, infact the only issue I have with status resist is that humans, mechanations and corrupted get screwed on it cause they dont want to build SAN at all, so the removal of Status Res from RES really hurt those characters.
Besides if a Hexer can't status inflict they're basically useless, just stop.
My point was mainly towards of how well Hexer interacts with Vampires; although you're free to say there's nothing wrong with either if you're that concerned for existing characters becoming less powerful through any chance of an agreed rebalance although it seems everyone else on the thread shares some common goal of achieving said rebalance for these things (even if it still remains to actually work one out everyone can agree on).
"Spoops" Wrote:". . . you're just wrong. . . Besides if a Hexer can't status inflict they're basically useless, just stop."
If this is expected to be your reaction for the rest of the thread then please stop replying; I never said a Hexer should be unable to status inflict, I was just trying to suggest there may be issues to adjust and account for in the current system.
EDIT: I'm tempted to agree with some form of chance-based Min/Max values apart from the currently flat 100%'s that weigh drastically one way or the other in a majority of cases although I still feel it's still too much of a band-aid with how things currently are.
I'm with Ran on the current values of Status Infliction and Resistance to be adjusted (but I don't agree on leaving out certain examples, especially when they seem to multiplicative in nature rather than the typical flat additions in the formulas - IE Fairy Ring).
I would also appreciate if this thread didn't turn into a Status Infliction VS. Status Resist Thread, since that wasn't the initial intention for it (meaning we should return to the initial topic and either make another thread to discuss Infliction VS. Resist --or-- figure out Vampires' Lunar Lunatism then move onto Inflict VS. Resist).
Re: Lunar Berserkism - Snake - 12-05-2016
Nah, more on the 'this topic is done' way. I've made my point, Dev did read and probably got my suggestion in his agenda, and will probably mold it in an even better way.
The rest is just rambling about Hexers and Stat Inflict. Which I made a topic already at: http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3563 but everyone was like 'nay fam!1!!one!shift+1', so what can I do?
Oh, I can do this:
Shoo from my Lunar Lunatism thread! Go revive that dead one. ):V
Re: Lunar Berserkism - Ranylyn - 12-05-2016
"Exxy" Wrote:I would also appreciate if this thread didn't turn into a Status Infliction VS. Status Resist Thread, since that wasn't the initial intention for it (meaning we should return to the initial topic and either make another thread to discuss Infliction VS. Resist --or-- figure out Vampires' Lunar Lunatism then move onto Inflict VS. Resist).
Point taken. It came up since it's partially related to the issue, but it's true it's only related and not the core issue.
I won't bring that up again.