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+--- Thread: STATUS EFFECTS (/showthread.php?tid=440)
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - MegaBlues - 12-23-2014
You can't really "stack status resist like no tomorrow" as the only resist effects there are are Warding Cloth, the catalyst, and Anti-Status.
And it doesn't quite sit right with me that someone can have a nigh 100% chance to inflict highly debilitating effects without any sort of passives.
So I'm in favor of Skill + Luck vs Res + Luck, with a trait or something to change the offensive half to Will + Luck for the mages out there.
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - Rockabye - 12-23-2014
SKI + LUC VS RES + LUC? Okay, let's look at it like this. Let's say you have a NON-HEXER. Papillion. They have 60 SKI, and 20 LUC. Their opponent has 60 RES, and 20 LUC. 0% chance to inflict a status effect. Rendar, since you think it's so difficult to get RES (it's not, you chose to focus on offensive power, and now you complain when that backfires on you), let's use a formula that may sit more comfortably with you. The inflicter has 60 SKI and 20 LUC, and the defender has 40 RES and 20 LUC. 20% chance to inflict a status effect. Who in their right mind would risk that, ever?
Status infliction chance is supposed to be in favor of the inflicter. Yes, massively so. Over 100% may be too much, but it's not over 100% to everyone contrary to what you seem to think, and for people who focus on this build (and I am not talking about Hexers, I'm referring to those that use Doriads and Papillions) it's important to make sure that they don't completely lose the thing they're good at. If it goes any lower than 70%, then something is seriously wrong. RES*2 should fix the problem in question. You're still going to have a ridiculous infliction chance on people with crummy RES, but that's just the natural order of things. You guys are focusing on the wrong side of an equation that affects more than just one class, and you're using minmaxers and Hexers as your justification for doing it.
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - Neus - 12-23-2014
"Rendar" Wrote:So take WILL out of the equation entirely?
Yeah. I like that from a mechanical perspective. Will is your damage influence, Skill is your special effect influence.
Also keep in mind you get 15% from using a Cursed main hand weapon and 30% for using a Doomed one. This isn't exclusive to Hexer; Hexer just gets an extra 20% on top of that with Dark Invasion.
Also you forgot green Fox God Blessing, MegaBlues.
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - MegaBlues - 12-23-2014
Redtails a worst.
Also, Rockabye, if someone managed to get 60 Res, they'd most likely have little to no offensive power.
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - Slydria - 12-23-2014
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=2565#p2565 Wrote:Neus » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:42 am[/url]"]I think SKI+LUC would probably be better. You can skew it widely in your favor without really inconveniencing yourself because of the bonus status inflict chance you get by having a Cursed/Doomed weapon, and even more with Hexer skills.
Dedicated Hexers only get 15% SKI and 10% LUC growths. Their chances to inflict statuses with this new formula would be quite low. Even with those passives holding them up.
Overall, this new formula gives too much weight to the defense, SKI + LUC vs RES + LUC might sound fair on paper, but in practice, this means a person with decent RES and LUC will not have to worry about it at all. Status infliction is only a chance and for it to always be successful, you would need a 100 point lead over them.
There are many ways to lower the formula with things like Anti-Status, Crucifix, Warding Cloth, Warding enchantment and Fairy Ring (which can be stacked to 3 currently), each contributing 10% Reduction.
And so far, the only ways to increase the formula are with Cursed Weapons and the Hexer's innate skills.
Ideally, I think the formula should stay as is because there's already alot of protection you can use and the formula needs to be skewed in favor of the inflicter otherwise these status effects become useless. At the very least, don't entirely take out WIL from the equation.
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - Ryu-Kazuki - 12-23-2014
I hadn't considered Doriads (since I never played one), but that's still a forced trick, Dev; and it greatly weakens two races' gimmicks.
We currently have no Curse Catalysts.
Most Cursed Weapons in chests are undesirable and have bad qualities, making nobody want them.
Having a curse kind of does give the enemy an advantage and not makes someone want to use something to hinder themselves just to have a slightly increased status chance rate, which may end up being completely miniscule, still.
We have no ways to combat the infliction reduction other than Hexer skills and Cursed Weapons; (unless Papilions and Doriads got some traits that give them increase infliction rates).
But if it were more along the lines of SKI*2+LUC then I'd be more open arms about it. Otherwise this really gives an unnecessary nerf to two races that were already pretty bad to begin with in my opinion.
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - Rendar - 12-23-2014
"Hexers are justified!"
I'm sorry what. I had 240% chance to afflict someone with my Doriad .before. hexer came out. It was 200%+, so I honestly don't know where "HEXER" came into play here. Hexer should keep its boost yes.
SKI + LUC vs RES + LUC isn't really a good idea, but neither is having SKI*2+WIL+LUC.
Also, sorry to tell you, but I have like. 60% chance on Quinn and.. 70% chance on my Doriad, barring Anti-Status that is.
If its SKI+WIL+LUC, lets just put MYSELF in here for this...
45+77+23 vs 50 + 23 + 10
That's still 62% on me, someone that has .pretty good. RES and nearly max base WIL, mind you I usually have about 94 WIL boosted.
So.. lets go with my actual not-base stuff.
50+95+24 vs 55 + 24 + 10
That's still 80% chance to afflict myself. Yeahhhhh I really shouldn't be used as a baseline because of the ridiculous amount of WIL I have, but atleast without doubling up SKI it becomes more of a 'fair' chance. Sort of.
Possibly SKI+WIL/2+LUC mighttttt work, or simply SKI+WIL+LUC
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - Neus - 12-23-2014
"Slydria" Wrote:"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=2565#p2565 Wrote:Neus » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:42 am[/url]"]I think SKI+LUC would probably be better. You can skew it widely in your favor without really inconveniencing yourself because of the bonus status inflict chance you get by having a Cursed/Doomed weapon, and even more with Hexer skills.
Dedicated Hexers only get 15% SKI and 10% LUC growths. Their chances to inflict statuses with this new formula would be quite low. Even with those passives holding them up.
Overall, this new formula gives too much weight to the defense, SKI + LUC vs RES + LUC might sound fair on paper, but in practice, this means a person with decent RES and LUC will not have to worry about it at all. Status infliction is only a chance and for it to always be successful, you would need a 100 point lead over them.
There are many ways to lower the formula with things like Anti-Status, Crucifix, Warding Cloth, Warding enchantment and Fairy Ring (which can be stacked to 3 currently), each contributing 10% Reduction.
And so far, the only ways to increase the formula are with Cursed Weapons and the Hexer's innate skills.
Ideally, I think the formula should stay as is because there's already alot of protection you can use and the formula needs to be skewed in favor of the inflicter otherwise these status effects become useless. At the very least, don't entirely take out WIL from the equation.
Stat wise, maybe, but they get 20% from Dark Invasion and can bump that up to 50% with Payback. It's also a lot harder to get a high base RES than it is to get a high base SKI.
Even if you were to stack every status resistance available to you, it'd still be easy for a Hexer to break over 100% infliction rate with the way the current formula is, and without really inconveniencing themselves. And if you're giving up other beneficial effects for status resistance, then that status resistance should probably actually help you resist status effects.
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - Ryu-Kazuki - 12-23-2014
This personally sounds more like a problem with Hexers being too powerful with status infliction then. It shouldn't be taking races that heavily rely on infliction chance down with it when it comes to giving the infliction a nerf in my opinion.
Re: STATUS EFFECTS - Rockabye - 12-23-2014
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=2580#p2580 Wrote:MegaBlues » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:23 pm[/url]"]Redtails a worst.
Also, Rockabye, if someone managed to get 60 Res, they'd most likely have little to no offensive power.
![[Image: 94184c03b0.png]](http://puu.sh/dGOor/94184c03b0.png)
I don't understand you sometimes, Blues. Either way, I'll just sit out of this from here on. When every Papillion and Doriad is a Hexer and they otherwise don't exist, maybe you'll start seeing the problem... else you'll prove me entirely wrong, which is the preferable outcome.