+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Eviter (/showthread.php?tid=4429)
Re: Eviter - Snake - 04-05-2017
A sacrifice you should make. Tanks are only strong because they straight-up ignore CEL, AND, by making CEL matter for Duelists, you're giving the stat some importance. So win-win. Your words telling this, Shujin. Plus, this can't even be a hassle for tank ghosts, they gain CEL when their HP is low anyway. /shrug
The most acceptable way is to use the OP's suggestion, so Eviter becomes something like this:
Quote:Rank 1: 5 + Scaled CEL% chance.
Rank 2: 10 + Scaled CEL% chance.
Rank 3: 15 + Scaled CEL% chance.
Rank 4: 20 + Scaled CEL% chance.
Rank 5: 25 + Scaled CEL% chance.
Success reduces the damage by 10 + (WPN Durability)%, and WPN Durability by 1.
Re: Eviter - Shujin - 04-05-2017
Except that Duellists still can´t dodge, even if they build Cel, making it an unattractive stat for them, since Eviter isn´t that reliable it´s not really making it better.
To make it matter as you say, Cel would have to be more useful to them over all, and not just for a single mainclass skill and maybe, if they feel funny Blade barrier from Kensei.
Also, wow. The Cel a ghost gets for this is at the absolute maximum, when the Ghost is almost dead and it doesn´t matter any more 4% trigger chance. Since it´s 50% scaled cel, you can´t tell me any ghost is going to rely on that
I actually could dig it, when Eviter would atleast also count as a "Evasion" so volttigger would be triggered. That would be atleast something, cause Duellist seriously lacks a way to trigger this on their own.
Re: Eviter - Snake - 04-05-2017
For the record, it's not 50% Scaled CEL that will define if Eviter will or not trigger. It's a (Base Chance + CEL) = (Total%). You might want to re-read things up there.
Re: Eviter - Shujin - 04-05-2017
or you simply read my post and think about what I said. It´s still only +4%
Edit:
Quote:(Base Chance + CEL) = (Total%)Is wrong. It´s (base+ 50% CEL)=(Total%)
Re: Eviter - Snake - 04-05-2017
Look my man. I had to accept the fact Raijin was overpowered because it 'was' overpowered, and in the end it got changed regardless of my opinion or not. Eviter is the same thing just because of the wonky conditions to be triggered and how 'free' it even is. CEL is useless for Duelist? Okay, there's one use for CEL, trigger Eviter and Blade Barrier. Nothing more to say here as you've already said yourself.
Duelist was never meant to be a tanky class at all, or a class to cast aside CEL, if not for the minimal use of it that is turn order. If you want to dodge, get a damned Rogue or Martial Artist as subclass and have fun being untouchable.
Also, Ghost gives +1 per 10% HP lost or granted by Afflicted Spectre.
Aaand, the OP said they want it to be (Base + CEL/2)%, 'I', want it to be (Base + CEL)%, for clarification. My suggestion makes more sense I guess, especially for the future, when skills and magic will start consuming WPN Durability.
Re: Eviter - Autumn - 04-05-2017
Honestly I think you're blowing it out of proportion here Shujin, while tank and dodge should both integrate into class setups, I don't think tank should be so influental on duelist here, cause as it stands a tank duelist is just how you play the game since Duelist fits into being a super high damage class niche, you can't exactly allow tanks to run amok with that sort of setup and also get even more tankability for using Duelist so liberally, this is why Void Assassin also promotes dodge heavily.
Re: Eviter - Shujin - 04-05-2017
And dodge people aren´t supposed to reduce all damage to a minimum for stacking one stat and grabing a bunch of skills.
All I am saying here is, if thats the niche Duellist ist supposed to fill, it should get more things that actually promote spending your stat points to fullfill this role. So making Eviter count as a Evasion, so Volttigger works, would atleast promote this decision.
Duellist is also meant to face an opponent directly, and being good at that, which eviter is for.
I am not saying that eviter doesn´t need a nerf, I would just like to get the nerf into their class setting a bit more. It´s a mainclass skill that doesn´t really go with what the class does mainly (the way it´s suggested), so you go out of their way a little for it. Solution would be to make building Cel more rewarding with them, I a not a fan of being "Pseudo" locked to certain class combos just because the class isn´t able to pull it off alone. Kills a lot of creative set ups.
@Koonie
I am aware, you were still completely off with whatever you said. I just corrected you.
Also compareing Bananas with apples doesn´t work aswell.
Let me do the math for you.
Also, Ghost gives +1 per 10% HP lost or granted by Afflicted Spectre.-> when a Ghost is in it´s last 10% they get 9 CEL-> Base trigger chance+(50%(Scaled Cel+9)) half of 9 is 4.5 and is usually rounded down in game to 4%. So you cant really Cell(Ha!) as something super useful for Ghosts. I even left diminishing returns out.
Re: Eviter - Snake - 04-05-2017
@Shu
![[Image: 66f19075b0084bb7948911a076e94341.png]](http://image.prntscr.com/image/66f19075b0084bb7948911a076e94341.png)
@Rest
But yeah, that aside since we're not after demolishing the need to nerf this. Why don't we all agree to go with 100% Scaled CEL instead of 50%? Trust me, with 100% Scaled CEL we can atleast have a minimum of 40% chance of it triggering, from CEL granted by Aptitude or something like it, so dodge people will benefit more often than non-dodge people.
Also, I remember suggesting a destiny-only thing that gives one level of Voltiger if you trigger a parry, be it yours or the enemy's. Why can't this just be added to Duelist regardless destiny? It's still a good suggestion.
Quote:tl;dr
Adjust Eviter to make it also need (100% of your Scaled CEL) in order to be used. And use (WPN Durability + 10) for its damage reduction.
Adjust Flottement so it grants +1 Voltiger LV at parrying, being parried, triggering Evasion or successfully dodging.
Re: Eviter - Shujin - 04-05-2017
Thats something I can get behind, since it actually benefits their role then.
Re: Eviter - Joseph Jostar - 04-05-2017
as long as we're on the topic i guess i might as well make the obligatory 'return bare handed eviter @40%' suggestion on the condition that they have a high rank in the MA innate for bare fist
does voltiger still stack to absurd amounts? i feel like another way to proc it even if they fail to dodge might get a little out of hand but idk since i don't really play as much these days