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+--- Thread: Non-Resistant (/showthread.php?tid=4577)
Re: Non-Resistant - Autumn - 05-22-2017
Anyone with any marginal use of SAN has status resistance usually, the reason as to why status resistance vs status infliction is a scary thing to balance is because status based builds rely ENTIRELY on that check, that is almost more than literally all of their use, but if you want to go ahead and argue that giving people more status res based on a PvE perspective then why don't you just take the protective paper charm? Or warding enchants and Crucifix, there are several ways to go about this without touching the PvP aspect, as to which, news flash that is entirely what balance is for mostly in the first place, PvE balance involves tweaking skills that cater towards monsters specifically such as the Monster Hunter trait and Weapon Potentials for katanas as of late.
Re: Non-Resistant - Selfish Gene - 05-22-2017
I will be completely honest, I just had to finish typing an entire paragraph in this forum in order to vent about how irritating it is to discuss topics with you. I wrote the last paragraph of my original post in hopes of keeping things like these from happening. As such, I will stop replying to you and simply stand my ground in thinking that 1% status resistance for resistance not being the end of the world. I said I'm trying to bring light to the PVE side of things, as well as PVP because it's not uncommon for PVE to be overlooked. I didn't think that it would blow up in my face with a remark like that. The way you phrase things like "I don't think you understand" is honestly extremely hurtful and always makes it feel like you're looking down on anyone who doesn't share the same perspective as you. But I digress.
In either case, I reiterate that I still think that due to the nature of the stat itself, giving it 1% of status resistance per point would not be the end of the world. Sanctity offers 2% per point (Which is far more atrocious than what I'm offering) and Faith already provides 1%. I don't think it's fair that I run around being status inflicted by everything if I'm playing a race that doesn't benefit from sanctity and doesn't need faith. Your suggestions are literally to just equip the 50% status resistance item and call it a day, but my point is that I shouldn't be forced to do so.
Re: Non-Resistant - Autumn - 05-22-2017
I'm just saying that were items created to clear out the weaknesses you are concerned with, but alright, if you so choose to ignore my posts until you understand SL2's balance a bit more, then so be it, no hair off my back anyway.
Re: Non-Resistant - Selfish Gene - 05-22-2017
This is exactly what I mean by rude and insensitive. Acting like I don't understand anything whatsoever simply because I choose to not read posts riddled in negativity and attitude? Oh wow, it's almost as if I'm a human that has emotions.
Edit: Also, if you're so concerned about this being game breaking to a degree, why not take away the 1:2 ratio for Sanctity and give the other 1% to Resistance?
Re: Non-Resistant - PantherPrincess - 05-22-2017
"Selfish Gene" Wrote:This is exactly what I mean by rude and insensitive. Acting like I don't understand anything whatsoever simply because I choose to not read posts riddled in negativity and attitude? Oh wow, it's almost as if I'm a human that has emotions.That actually sounds even better this way sanctity centered racial builds cant double stack with resistance. In general I think Resistance has such little offering... 1 dark atk and 1 magic def isnt much at all. It's like str in the sense that it's one of the weaker stats to invest in right now. 1% per 1 point in resistance is literally nothing when you add it up.
Edit: Also, if you're so concerned about this being game breaking to a degree, why not take away the 1:2 ratio for Sanctity and give the other 1% to Resistance?
Re: Non-Resistant - GSM - 05-22-2017
"PantherPrincess" Wrote:In general I think Resistance has such little offering... 1 dark atk and 1 magic def isnt much at all. It's like str in the sense that it's one of the weaker stats to invest in right now. 1% per 1 point in resistance is literally nothing when you add it up.
To add upon this, a Charged Mind literally anything can shatter through Resistance and elemental resistances, which works almost woefully well with any Evoker or Destiny Mage. At the most, you're going to be more resistant to someone's katana dealing additional damage- and even then, it might overpower you Resistance. Defense, on the other hand, handily blocks almost all damage by its stated percentage, and the only way that people can get absurd levels of damage is with either a Bloody Palms Elemental Katana Duelist Destiny, which is hugely specific, or an Ether Invitation at low HP, which even then can be mitigated by literally any defensive class skills- namely, Eviter, a prepared Sheathe Sword, and most Duelist passives. This is also not to bring up that Dark is literally the most resisted element out of all of them, especially with Vampire characters.
Semi-moderate magic damage reduction to Resistance with no defensive class skills outside of the long-forgotten Evasion to mitigate damage is somewhat the issue with Resistance, since it has no extra needed 'oomph'.
Re: Non-Resistant - Raigen.Convict - 05-22-2017
After reading through all of this, I feel that taking the 1% stat res from sanctity and placing it into Res will actually be a good balance so that way if you want as much status res as possible, you have to focus three stats equally instead of primarily one stat to achieve the same effect as is happening now. Plus Void Assassins supposedly the anti-mages rely on Resistance and such and rely on resisting magical effects. Yet Resistance currently doesn't help with that like it should. So I agree giving status resistance to resistance is a good idea. I also want to specifically adress spo with this. THERE WILL ALWAYS, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO TO BALANCE, BE OUTLIERS. You don't balance around the outliers. You balance around the general populace because there's going to be low spots on a balance spectrum, and there will be high spots. The balance is that if you do happen to become an outlier, you WILL have some sort of glaring weakness. While most people try to avoid having some sort of very exploitable weakness.
Re: Non-Resistant - Neus - 05-23-2017
1)This is more of a Balance Fu topic than a suggestion.
2) High Speed Divine Words might be a bit outdated and need to be removed/changed at some point since it was added in a much different time.
3) Personally I don't know about adding extra status resistance to RES, it's already a valuable stat, and the status infliction/resistance formula, stat wise, is perfectly balanced by one major stat and one minor stat for each.
Re: Non-Resistant - Chaos - 05-23-2017
"Selfish Gene" Wrote:Pardon me? I do very well know how it is. 1% of status resistance isn't anything game changingLet's assume 40 RES:
Status Resistance: 40 (RES) + 40 (Paper Charm) + 10 (Crucifix) + 10 (Anti-Status Trait) + 30 (Fairy Sync-Mind Passives) + 10~20 (Warding Enchant; you're far less likely to see one on Torso, so let's account for not having that)
Congratulations, you have 140~150 Status Resistance (not counting FAI and/or SAN) and 40% Magic Damage Reduction from one stat alone. Not only is this enough to keep most (if not 99% of) inflictions off your back, but you also get to almost completely ignore the effects of Dark Waters on your Status Resist! Let's also not forget that you're also getting quality damage reduction at the same time.
I'm sorry, but RES taking on Status Resistance would, in fact, be 'game changing'. Putting any sort of Status Resistance on a status that provides Damage Reduction at the same time is some insane defensive value. That should not be possible, nor should we have to shift away Status Resistance from FAI/SAN just because any number of people can't use one or both. (Especially when, say, Black Knights already have an anti-Poison skill to begin with) Dumping a stat has consequences: FAI and SAN make it glaring with a serious vulnerability to status effects.
The MOST I would adjust here is making FAI the major stat for Status Resistance. Though honestly, I don't see why we should make a stat that Hexers can easily negate the major source of SR.
P.S. HSDW can be dealt with on its own time. We should not use it as a 'reason' to make RES stronger than it should be.
Re: Non-Resistant - Selfish Gene - 05-23-2017
Then what about the latest one of my suggestions being subtracting 1% status resistance from Sanctity and putting it towards Resistance? As I've stated multiple times throughout the post, some races don't benefit from SAN as a stat whatsoever and having each point offer 2% is not only a fair chunk but renders these races much more likely to be inflicted with status ailments.
Also, Chaos, the issue with your calculations goes against most of what my posts have been consisting of. That is the literal example of someone purposely trying to build status resist items to try and receive that much resistance in the first place. My points throughout this entire thread have been having a bit more leniency towards builds who don't directly want to build a ton of resistance but still have some chance of resisting a status effect. If you subtract 1% of the 2% SAN offers in status resistance and offered it to RES, at least then there would be even the slightest chance to resist an effect.
As for your suggestion about making FAI the major stat for status resistance? I also disagree. Another point of mine throughout this thread is how both stats that are extremely situational build-wise are the ones who gain status resistance. By making FAI the "2% status resistance stat", you're essentially making it so that people need to invest in yet another stat that won't benefit them nearly as much as curates and summoners. Any build can benefit from resistance, hence why having the opportunity to make an even 1% split between 3 stats rather than having one stat be "better than the other" would be the best course of action.
Also, I don't think this thread is about making "RES stronger than it should be". It's more about offering an actual chance at resisting status effects and making the stat go back to its general resisting roots. Here are examples status resistance equations since visuals tend to work quite well. At this very moment, an Imperialist human with 49 Aptitude has 12 RES, 8 FAI, 8 SAN.
As such, with the current status resistance equation it provides:
a. 12 RES (12 * 0) + 8 FAI (8 * 1) + 8 SAN (8 * 2) = 24 status resistance.
Any build that doesn't use FAI or SAN (The vast majority of them) will be stuck at this pitiful amount of status resistance. If said Imperialist human decided to become a priest, one might say their scaled RES, FAI and SAN may be scaled 45 each. So:
b. 45 RES (45 * 0) + 45 FAI (45 * 1) + 45 SAN (45 * 2) = 135 status resistance.
As you see, there is an immediately and quite frankly gross comparison between say an Imperialist Kensei/Demon Hunter compared to an Imperialist Priest/Ghost.
Now, let's see how the status resists would change if they consisted of an even spread of 1:1:1 rather than 0:1:2:
a. 12 RES (12 * 1) + 8 FAI (8 * 1) + 8 SAN (8 * 1) = 28 status resistance (Already a slight improvement base wise.)
b. 45 RES (45 * 1) + 45 FAI (45 * 1) + 45 SAN (45 * 1) = 135 status resistance (Literally unchanged)
Let's say the character is running Ghost/BK with 30 RES, 8 FAI, 8 SAN:
c. 30 RES (30 * 1) + 8 FAI (8 * 1) + 8 SAN (8 * 1) = 46 status resistance (18 higher)
This is what I mean. It's literally nothing game changing if we make it a fair 1:1:1 ratio rather than give status resistances to two of the most situational stats in the game. It will give non-FAI/SAN/Status Stackers a slightly higher chance to resist status effects compared to before. Whether this change is accepted or not is perfectly fine, but I would much rather it be genuinely contemplated and my work and effort be recognized. Not only this but as Raigen said in his own post:
"Raigen.Convict" Wrote:THERE WILL ALWAYS, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO TO BALANCE, BE OUTLIERS. You don't balance around the outliers. You balance around the general populace because there's going to be low spots on a balance spectrum, and there will be high spots.
Edit: Changed "how the status resists if they" to "how the status resists would change if they".
Edit 2: Changed "put" to "point", goodness gracious.